Someone explain to me how Drew "doesn't get his teammates involved" when the Rockets are 3-0 with him starting and 4-16 without? Was Bryce playing one on 5 in those games? The Rockets lost the first quarter by 9, which Francis played all of. They only lost the 2nd by 3. They started off the 3rd quarter down 9-0, causing the starting 5 to get pulled. The 2nd unit, with Drew as point and playing against the Nets' starters for much of the time, were outscored by only 2 the rest of the 3rd quarter. The Rockets outscored the Nets by 11 in the 4th.
You omitted a few things there BryceFan. And by the way Drew isn't shooting 42 not 43 percent, but thats not what Im going to haggle over. DREW FG%-42, 3's-43, FT's-85, rebs-1.5, assists- 2.3, stls- .59, blks- .04, TO's- 1.27, pts 8.2 FRANCIS FG%-43, 3's-31, FT's-73, rebs-5, assists- 6.2, stls- 1.4, blks- .42, TO's 4.1, Pts- 17 Lets see Francis is a rookie point Guard who is averaging 5 boards a game to Drews 1.5. He also averages almost 7 assists a game compared to Drews 2.3. So Francis gets many more steals, blocks more shots. Shoots better from the field, gets way more assists, and rebounds like a champ from the point guard spot, not to mention he only averages about 10 more points a game. While Drew turns the ball over less, and shoots better from the line. Well being that Francis has gotten to the line 4 times as much as Drew in 3 less games, Ill take Francis free throws over Drews. Leaving Turnovers as the sole compartment to Drews game being better than Francis. Lets remember that Francis is a Rookie, who is playing against the 1st stringers, while Drew is a sub, who see's alot of 2nd and 3rd stringers. And for those who think Francis is a complete ball hog. Hogwash. The man is averaging a shot ever .4 of a minute (not translated into every 40 seconds, but every 4 tenths of a minute) Drew averages a shot every .34 of a minute. Now, Ive kept my mouth shut over Drew's game, because he has played, OK over the last few weeks. But lets not get carried away.
You omitted a few things yourself, there, Dreamshake. "Lets see Francis is a rookie point Guard who is averaging..." Drew is a virtual rookie as well. Spot minutes in 15 games with no training camp doesn't exactly qualify as a rookie season in this comparison. Francis may be a rookie, but he's played in far more meaningful game situations than Drew has, more minutes per game, and started many more games as well. "He also averages almost 7 assists a game compared to Drews 2.3." Compare these numbers to Drew's as a starter. Bench players are typically brought in for either offense or defense, Drew's purpose would be offense. His job coming off the bench is usually to shoot. He's averaging nearly 6 assists per game as a starter, with little more than 1 turnover per game. "So Francis....Shoots better from the field" Wow. 43% to 42%. That's quite a disparity. "...gets way more assists," Again, compare as a starter. I would be willing to bet that if Francis played alongside Cuttino Mobley for most of his minutes, his assist numbers would go way down as well. "While Drew turns the ball over less, and shoots better from the line. Well being that Francis has gotten to the line 4 times as much as Drew in 3 less games, Ill take Francis free throws over Drews." Okay, that's a good idea. Since Shaq gets to the line more and makes more than Drew, I'll take his free throws over Drew's too. "Leaving Turnovers as the sole compartment to Drews game being better than Francis. Lets remember that Francis is a Rookie, who is playing against the 1st stringers, while Drew is a sub, who see's alot of 2nd and 3rd stringers." Already addressed the "rookie" contention. In Drew's games as a starter, he's played nearly 40 minutes a game and only averaged 1.3 turnovers, with almost 6 assists. Most importantly, the team is 3-0. Drew has actually played BETTER against 1st stringers than he has against bench players, outplaying Jason Kidd in one instance. You also conveniently left out the fact that Drew shoots WAY better from 3-pt land, at 43.5%.
Bravo Thefreak. Great post. Just one thing I want to add: those of us who like Bryce Drew, like Francis as well. Francis is the better player, and I wish people would stop trying to pretend that we're saying otherwise. However, right now... Drew is playing better at the #1. I think that moving Francis to SG and Anderson to SF might be best for everybody. Let Francis learn a little control before running the team. Remember, Francis only had 1 year of playing even at the 1a level... the other two years were JUCO. I think he needs to adjust to the NBA game before we worry about him running a team.
Freak...Regardless, Drew isn't a rookie. He got alot of action last year. He's seen alot of action this year. You can't just say he's all but a rookie. If thats the case then what does that make Francis. But if you'd like, Ill compare the two players stats after the same amount of minutes played so far in Francis career. Ill be willing to wager Francis is way above anything the Drew did last year. Heck he's still way over what Drew has ever did. Im alittle confused as to your assesment that he plays better as a starter than a reserve. Hey playing is playing. Performing is performing. Under that set of circumstance every opposing team would have a simple game plan when Drew was in. Play a 2nd stringer. How exactly would Francis' assists go down if he came off the bench with Cuttino "Shoots-a-lot" Mobley???? It doesnt make sense does it. Plus they already play very similar minutes seeing alot of each other on the court. This only goes to hurt your Drew arguments. Bottom line once again. Francis gets way more assists (involoves his teammates much more than Drew) Gets way more Bounds (allowing the Rox to have more shots) Gets more steals and blocks (meaning he allows the opposition fewer shots) So what if its 1 percent difference does it change the fact that he actually shoots better from the field??? So he makes more shots (allowing less an opportunity for defensive rebounds, and shots for other teams) And still barely shoots more than Drew, as per time on the court. Considering he almost averages 10 more points a game, this is a testimony to Drew's own ineffectivness in scoring. As for the Free throw shooting. You may have a point about shaq. Big difference is that Shaq hits about 40 percent less than Drew. With Francis your talking about 1 more miss per 10 shots. And like I was saying, considering he gets to the line 4 times as much, Ill take that one more miss per 10 shots. It wasnt as hard as you made it. Would you take Karl Malones free throw expoits over Drews?? He hits around the same amount of freebies as Francis. If not your really not getting the point Now Francis does give the ball up more than Drew. But considering the difference every where else, Its not enough to give Drew the reins over Francis Ill agree with FF. You guys are trying to use one good week to determine someones ability over anothers. What I did was even up the score. And as you SHOULD clearly see, there's nothing close about it.
Still, why not start drew at PG, move Francis to SG, and put Anderson at SF? I think that Anderson has actually performed best at that position, which is more conducive to slashing. I think that by putting Francis at the 2 he woudl get the experience he needs, while allowing Drew to run the team in a more effective fashion. I *do* think that Drew is better than Williams. FF: You're sort of being reactionary. Drew isn't the player Francis is, but he's hardly "stupid," as you claim. That's not fair, rational, or honest.
QUESTION: Is it me or . . . Does Cuttino and Bryce SHARE PG Responsibilities. I watch as they do a more committee based game. They work their way up court together. [lot of times Drew gets pressure and throws it to CUt to break it.] just me . . . I could be wrong Rocket River
Is there really a debate? Stevie will be a star in this league. Drew is a nice player but will not be a star. There is no comparison. Stevie is a rookie and is trying hard and improving, I think. It's a lot of pressure as a rookie point guard. Bryce has a little more experience with the Rockets than Stevie and is a coach's son. The team seems to be running well lately with Bryce in there and he has been making his shots. But in no way is he a threat to take Stevie's job. By the way, we all thought Stevie was out cus of the flu but really it turned out that Rudy had benched all the starters and put in all new players cus he didn't see any "fire".
Drew is not "the man". He is an average backup pg. He scares no one with his "smarts" or shooting ability when he gets in the game, and why would anyone be scared? He does not change the complection of the game offensively or defensively. But he isn't a liability on the court, I'll give him that. Barkley was da man, now ?????? is da man. Someone, whether it be Drew(ha!) or someone else, needs to step up to make plays for this team.
Let me shell out the old stuff, Drew is court dumb and that's it, aside from stepping out of bounds in the final minutes, he called timeout when stepping out of bounds to retrieve a loose ball, he tried to foul the 330 pounds behemoth in Oliver Miller and the net result was a 3 point play by Miller. Drew should learn some basic physics that when Hercules is dunking he can't stop him with a feather touch on his arm. Accusing me of being irrational, dishonest, and reactionary are all that in themselves.
Haven: How will Francis learn the point if you put him at the 2? We're not headed anywhere this season, so we might as well use this opportunity to let Francis make all his mistakes while it doesn't matter.
I can't wait til Drew has finished his 15 minutes of fame. Then we can go back to leaving his ass on the bench where all scrubs belong. I am sure everyone in Miami felt this good with Harold Miner also. ------------------ Live Rocketball. Breathe Rocketball. Die with Rocketball.
After reading all of these takes on the situation, I don't see one that has gotten to the heart of the matter. Take a step back and look at this situation realistically. Francis has as much talent as anyone that has come into this league in a long time. However, that is RAW talent, and he has a tendency to play out of control with turnovers, and playing too fast for his or the teams good. Drew is a steady player who does nothing to hurt his team, and needs good players around him to help him shine. Francis can do a lot by himself, and Drew needs teamates to make it happen. We all have to realize that this year is essentially lost, and I am sure Rudy knows that too, so he took out the whole starting 5 at once to teach them that they have to play hard every night. I don't have a problem with this, Francis needs to learn it, so does Cato, Rogers, and the rest of our young team. The Rockets play better TEAM ball with Drew in there right now. No one has figured out how to be a cutter when Francis makes his move. Too often the rest of the team clears out and lets Steve do his thing. They need to set a pick, and roll, or do a give and go. Francis will be great, and Drew will be steady. I am glad they are both on MY ROCKETS. The Problem I see is that you need quality BIG people to play in this league. No SMALL guard has ever won anything, with the exception of Isiah, and he had Rodman rebounding like a madman, and Lambier to work his pick and roll. I know this may not be popular, but I would Trade Francis in an instant if I could get a Vince Carter type player. I would rather have a 6'6" star then a 6'3" PG. I would even rather have Lamar Odom. Big people win in this league. PERIOD !! DaDakota
THIS is what Andy Warhol was talking about.The need for a power forward and possibly a 3(even though I would like to see Stevie,Cat,and Anderson start)will insure that we don't have to listen to this stuff much longer.Stevie is a player with potential to become the best guard in the league.Let him develop,damnit.I'm sick of talking about Bryce(fill in your own descriptives)Drew.He has progressed and thus raised his trade value.We need help on the front line,so lets leave the STAR of this team to develop and not make anymore assinine staements about Drew starting.He is turning into the most he will be,time to deal...............Lets talk about our needs and what we can do about it,O.K. Happy Daze Go Bryce!....Good luck as a Clipper,Warrior,or Sixer.He won't get the PT to develop here getting 10min./game like he should. [This message has been edited by Hardwood Hammer (edited December 12, 1999).]
Dakota-Where have you been this last decade? The bulls dynasty consisted of mainly guards. If you think Longley made the difference as the big man you are mistaken. There is nothing wrong building around a guard. The thing is you have do pick and rolls, etc. Or run a triangle offense which utilizes on guards. Problem is Rudy likes the Post up game and you know obviously something is wrong when Francis dumps the ball into the post to Ham.
rocketsfan, Jordan and Pippen were both over 6 1/2 feet tall. I love Steve Francis, and hope he develops into a star. I am not ready to annoint him, based on a measly 17 points a game. A STAR MAKES THOSE AROUND HIM BETTER !!! Francis does not do that, YET !! I know he will, but Rudy needs to break him like a bronco. He has developed too many ME tendencies and needs to learn the WE. WE wins, ME loses. It took Jordan years to learn this, and it took Hakeem years as well. I was hoping him playing with Hakeem and Charles would accelerate this process. Now I think we are in for a long 3-5 years. DaDakota
I know I wasn't the only one who saw Kelvin Cato score 20+ points off of Steve Francis alleyoops in that first Phoenix game. For God's sake, Francis hasn't even been healthy these last few games! [This message has been edited by thacabbage (edited December 12, 1999).]
Cabbage, I agree they play together somewhat, but right now most of his assists are in the transition game. This part of the game breaks down in the 4th quarter and in close games. The Rockets need to learn how to move on offense. They don't move when Mobley has the ball either. I agree, we are definitly rebuilding. Unfortunately, I see it taking a long time. DaDakota [This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited December 12, 1999).]
