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Bruce Lee lost in a fight

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by RocketForever, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. RocketForever

    RocketForever Contributing Member

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    A Bruce Lee Fight Without Cameras Changed Everything

    As we approach the 40th anniversary of Bruce Lee's untimely death at age 32, there are Hollywood plans for another movie about him. Despite his short life, he is regarded as the greatest martial artist of modern times. "Birth of the Dragon" filmmakers say the movie will not be another biopic; they intend to focus on something that happened in Bruce Lee's teaching studio at 4157 Broadway in Oakland, California, before his rise to international stardom: a fight with Wong Jack Man on an autumn evening in 1964. According to the producers, Hollywood's screenplay will tell its own version of the story by injecting fantasy. The real reasons for the fight and the outcome of it have been debated for almost 50 years, but Bruce Lee is gone and Wong Jack Man is not talking. One thing is clear: This was the most significant fight of Bruce Lee's career.
    Background From Rick L. Wing
    As an early Bruce Lee fan, I wanted to find out more about that 1964 event. The following was related to me over noodles and rice in March by Rick L. Wing, the martial arts master to whom Wong Jack Man entrusted his San Francisco school upon his retirement in December 2005. Sifu Rick Wing attended more of Sifu Wong's classes than anyone, accumulating nearly 33 years as his student. As Wing explained, "As a grandmaster, Sifu Wong is enormously well respected, highly skilled -- an old school-style teacher whose doors were open to all that sought his instruction. As a man, I describe him as extremely soft-spoken, kind, modest, fair, and very private."
    When I asked about this match with Bruce Lee, Wing said, "Sifu Wong will not talk about it." Whatever he has had to share about the fight is contained within the e-book pages of "Showdown in Oakland: The Story Behind the Wong Jack Man - Bruce Lee Fight" by Wing.
    A Bruce Lee Challenge
    In 1964 at Jackson Street's Sun Sing Theatre in San Francisco's Chinatown, the movie "The Amorous Lotus Pan," starring Diana Chang, played to a packed house, as the 28-year-old Hong Kong starlet was to perform onstage. Her onstage cha-cha dance partner was a former Hong Kong amateur dancing champion named Bruce Lee. The audience was also treated to a kung fu demonstration including one of Bruce's signature moves, his powerfully focused one-inch punch, forceful enough to send an audience volunteer reeling backwards. On this occasion, Bruce's first attempt was unsuccessful. In response to the audience's reaction, he issued a challenge for anyone to come to his Oakland martial arts studio and best him. That remark set tongues wagging and launched the events that followed.
    A Wong Jack Man Acceptance
    Eleven gathered to watch Bruce and Wong Jack Man, a martial arts expert one year his junior, who had accepted the challenge at the prompting of others. These martial arts practitioners, plus Bruce's 19-year-old wife, Linda (Emery) Lee, were eager to witness a private demonstration of skill. Why not? These two guys were young, extremely fit, and in the mood to settle the score on a dare. Bruce was an Oakland-based martial arts instructor and a father-to-be just shy of 24. Wong Jack Man had arrived in 1963 from Hong Kong to teach Northern Shaolin Style from his studio at 880 Pacific Ave., his reputation preceding him. There were no political overtones, no gangs, no love interests, no ultimatums involved, despite later reports claiming otherwise. However, there may very well have been a great deal more bravado on display that evening than was intended or called for.
    Jeet Kune Do Is Born
    On the morning following the fight, Wong Jack Man reported for work at the Jackson Cafe, as usual. Bruce and his wife had gone home with their older friend and partner, Jimmy Y. Lee, whose house in Oakland was where they were living at the time. Everything had changed for Bruce. The Bruce Lee Foundation indicates that in the immediate aftermath of the fight, Bruce revised his methods and philosophy, creating the personal brand he called Jeet Kune Do, meaning "Way of the Intercepting Fist." Jimmy's son, Greglon Lee, writes that Bruce began "to think more analytically about how to improve his own fighting skills, especially his footwork, his timing, and his ability to bridge the gap with his opponent." Linda concurs, writing in her 1975 book, "The Wong Jack Man fight also caused Bruce to intensify his training methods. From that date, he began to seek out more and more sophisticated and exhaustive training methods."
    Immediate Aftermath
    Readers may appreciate knowing that an agreement of confidentiality between Bruce Lee and Wong Jack Man transpired at the conclusion of their private fight. However, one month after the fight, there was coverage in The Chinese Pacific Weekly picked up from a Hong Kong newspaper. Lee responded in his own defense three weeks later. On January 7, 1965, another report of the fight appeared, then another. Wong responded in his defense on January 28, 1965, offering a public second match with Bruce to which there was no reply. Bruce and Linda's baby boy arrived four days later. Lee was soon to be further distracted by action adventure on the small screen, then the big screen. Meantime, Wong closed the book for good. For Bruce, great fame, reputation, and success followed shortly.
    A Conclusion
    In the end, sadly, Bruce Lee died young. Like those of others with outstanding talent and charisma who have met an early demise, stories about his life and death are passed from one to another, taking on lives of their own. It is not unlike what happens in a child's game of Telephone, also called Chinese Whispers. As Wing told me, "You be the judge."

    http://news.yahoo.com/bruce-lee-fight-without-cameras-changed-everything-230600567.html

    I think the author has strongly hinted that Bruce Lee has lost in the fight.

    Legacy ruined?
     
  2. Yonkers

    Yonkers Contributing Member

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    You think the author hinted so you just put that in your title as fact. Good job.
     
  3. droopy421

    droopy421 Member

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    Legacy ruined? Absolutely not, everyone has been defeated at some point in their lives.
     
  4. tmoney1101

    tmoney1101 Contributing Member

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    there ya go.
     
  5. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

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    RocketForever did you think Bruce was invincible in a fight?
     
  6. Raven

    Raven Member

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    He was a great showman.
     
  7. BetterThanI

    BetterThanI Contributing Member

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    Even if he did lose (which is not clear from the article), he would not see that as some smear on his legacy, nor something to be ashamed of.

    He believed in the inner journey, not the judgment of others.

    He recognized that even the greatest artist can stagnate.

    And he knew that, when his technique failed him, it was time to revamp his entire method. He recognized his mistake.

    And was never afraid to face his own shortcomings.

    I think, in the end, his legacy is going to hold up just fine. Even with a loss.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. RocketForever

    RocketForever Contributing Member

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    Why would you think that? Please explain.

    My thought is Bruce Lee's legacy is based on the belief that he had never lost in a fight, on screen or off screen. So his legacy would be ruined if it can be confirmed that he had lost in that fight.
     
  9. BetterThanI

    BetterThanI Contributing Member

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    Bruce Lee's legacy is based on being a true martial artist off screen and a complete bad-ass on screen. He was one of, if not THE, last philosopher-warriors and had an AMAZING impact on martial arts instruction both in the US and around the world. He was crucial in bringing Asians onto the TV screen in America, and bascially taught the entire country the words "kung-fu". That has little, if anything, to do with his win-loss record.
     
  10. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I don't think that's his legacy. I'm not sure exactly what his legacy is, but certainly in my mind I never envisioned Lee as some master who was never bested in a "fight" (fight in quotes because there have to be so many conditions that what make it an acceptable fight. obviously a duded could come in with a gun and best Lee.. so fight in the martial arts sense).

    The most interesting thing about this story is that there's a guy going by Wong Jack Man. Wong Man.
     
  11. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    Do any MMA fighters use Jeet Kune Do ? I don't know of any.
     
  12. lfw

    lfw Rookie

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    That's better than Man Jack Wong, I guess.
     
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  13. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Technically they all do because Jeet June Do means using what ever you find most effective. Bruce used a combination of Wing Chung, Boxing, Tae kwon do, wrestling and Judo because that was what he was exposed to.
     
  14. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    Don't think you understand his legacy and if you believed there's a martial arts fighter in the world, especially in China who never lost a fight in his life then you're pretty naive.
     
  15. bongman

    bongman Member

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    IMHO, his legacy is as follows and in no particular order:

    - Made Eastern form of martial arts part of the main stream. Just look at how many martial arts studios there are now
    - Asians can be lead actors in major international movies and become box office hits. He paved the way for Jacky Chan, Jet Lee, etc.
    - Modern physical fitness training is essential for all type of sports
    - Made it clear that there is NO supreme form of martial arts. You have to incorporate all the different techniques to be a great fighter
    - Tricked westerners to think that all Asians can fight ;)
     
  16. Anxiety Trooper

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    LOH hating on Bruce:mad::eek::p
     
  17. ashiin

    ashiin Member

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    Do you think Pacman's reputation is ruined because he got TKO'd in the last fight? Hells no.
     
  18. BamBam

    BamBam Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
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  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I'm more surprised that people actually believe that Bruce Lee never lost a fight.
     
  20. BamBam

    BamBam Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
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