Please stop being intentionally dense to ignore the glaring point we are trying to make about our two point guards overall game and effectiveness. One of the prime points is the ability to be effective in the playoff atmosphere against good teams when transition buckets are harder to come by and the game molds into more of a half court set. Compare Lowrys 20 mpg season production vs his 20 mpg playoff production. Lowry Regular Season: 21.8 mpg, 44% shooting, 3 FTA, 3.6 a/g , 1.5 to/g Lowry Playoffs: 19.5 mpg, 33% shooting, 2.4 fta, 2.5 a/g, 1.31 to/g Compare Brooks regular season production vs his playoff production. Brooks Regular Season: 25 mpg, 40.4 % shooting, 36% 3p, 3 a/g, 1.56 to/g Brooks Playoffs: 34.2 mpg, 45.3% shooting, 42% 3p, 3.4a/g, 2.23 to/g
So when Lowry does well it's because of the schedule, and when Chase does poorly he's just lost confidence? No bias there! And I'm sure if AB struggles coming back you'll chalk it up do to injury. Meanwhile, when Lowry was struggling at the beginning of the season you were rubbing it in everyone's face. And I love how you frame the argument. First, it was "Lowry can't shoot." Now, it's "Lowry can't shoot against good teams." If he does start hitting against good teams, I'm sure you'll act like you were on his side all along. Why can't you admit that we might have two starting-caliber point guards?
Did you realize that you also included Lowry's first half Memphis stats? Not that it matters much, but there's no point in including what he did for a different coach, in a different offensive system, under a different coach. Do you know that you're using two year old stats to make an argument? Our team is completely different than it was two years ago, so a lot of that is really irrelevant. I'm having trouble understanding these numbers in the context of Lowry supporters argument of wanting Brooks to be the 6th man. Why would Brooks be unable to have the same playoff success if the Rockets put him as the 6th man?
Good points. Right now, the team is too inconsistent offensively to give up Brooks....4-5 good games is not enough of a sample size to say we are better without him. Lee shoots well some nights, and is off on many others. Budingers almost always off these days. Lowry is also unpredictable, though he is starting to become more consistent. When teams focus in on Scola- and though he is good, you can take him out of games with good D- we've struggled to score, and thats where AB comes in. AB has his strengths, and one of his biggest strengths is his ability to create his own shot, particularly late in games. Morey has said that no one on this team is off limits, and I wouldnt be shocked to see him traded- AB's asking price this offseason is going to be in the 8 mil range, and I dont see the team throwing that much money into the PG position, and I dont think that Morey and co. want to see AB leave with no return on investment.
Hell no, I have not been giving Chase any passes....where have you been? And Lowry's shooting is poor, or has been, but I will say his 3ball has been pretty good lately, but his midrange still looks poor. If he continues to shoot it like this defenses will have to honor him...and that is a good thing. DD
He tends to overlook points that destroy his argument or lack thereof. You don't have to be rocket scientist to see that Lowry simply brings more to the table from the PG spot. AB is a scorer. He was a 2 in college, which is one of the main reasons he plays like a 2 now.
Agreed about Brooks -- he's probably the best on the team at getting off his own shot. I think when "AB-supporters" (I hate using that term because it implies division amongst fans) hear that people want him moved to 6th man, they assume that means he won't be in the game in the clutch. It couldn't be further from the truth.. we'll need his scoring when we're in a drought or the game comes down to the final possession. I just like Lowry as setting the defensive tone for the team and looking to get others involved. Lowry is better at looking to get other guys going before himself.. Brooks is better at flat-out scoring. We need both.. people just get hung up on this "starter" label.
A more knowledgeable look would be how many total points did they facilitate for the team, because scoring a goal is just as important as assisting for a score... I am not saying Lowry sucks, just that in a realistic view, he has fed on the weak sisters lately. I know coming from me, you guys don't want to admit it...I get that...no worries. I am HAPPY to let the coach decide and if he decides to go with Lowry, I am ok with that. But I would BET...that most of you would not be......now why is that? Maybe when Brooks gets back and bails the team out with a 30pt and 8 assist game you guys will post another poll.... And the beat goes on........ DD
Yep our second unit goes through stretches where they can't buy a bucket. See the beginning of the second quarter of last night's game. AB can still get his in a different role.
I think Aaron's fate will be sealed by timing. Both of his injury, and of Lowry's contract. If their roles were switched, Kyle would be gone. It's not his fault, just how things go in pro sports.
Great point. From a quick glance, it looks like he played much better for the Rockets than the Grizzlies....which would show an even BIGGER drop off from Rocket regular season production to Rocket playoff production. Thanks for bringing that up. Yes completely different, except for 6 of the exact same rotation players, using the same coach and style of play. No Artest, Martin instead. No Landry, add in Budinger. Slightly different...yes. Irrelevant? Absolutely not, unless you are biased in some way. Why would Lowry have trouble being a sixth man? Personally I dont care who starts, I just want Brooks playing alongside Yao and Battier for the half court sets.
You say Lowry's not as talented as the more vocal fans say he is. I agree with that completely. I've knocked him constantly for not improving his game since his Villanova days, but it's obvious he's putting in some work. You say you're not giving Chase any passes. Are you willing to admit that perhaps he's just not as talented as you thought?
Currently the rockets are in a dilema......2 starting guards that will require 2 starting PG salaries......as nice as it would be to keep both as we have as of late it looks as if one of those guys will have to be moved due to the amount of money invested in that postion. The Rox will have to look into spending that money on a legit C/Sf and thus one will be traded. Pick your poison, because both guards have there pros and cons. Depending on the direction the team is going after this YAO situation pans out it may be safe to say it will come down to what player will net the most return if traded or the personell of players Morey plans to assemble.If you insert a SF like Iggy,wallace or Capn Jack you can place brooks in that lineup and he would be a scorer while igg,etc. play a T-mac type of facilitator role. If you go with Lowry you have to know that your SG/SF/PF will have to log most of the points on a nightly basis due to Lowrys' inability to score consistently. So it all depends on the future make-up of the team.....Currently brooks is rumored to be the odd man out but if he comes back and plays well and steps up his defense , Lowry might find himself on the way out instead...........IT IS WRITTEN.
Lowry is wining the poll by playing the great games recently. He seems to be more comfortable as a starter, but too bad, he has to be off the bench again soon, because he is not the coach draft pick.
Slightly different? Seriously? Artest is a strong, physical defender who preferred to bully his way to the basket or camp at the 3 point line waiting for the shot. His game had very little off-the-ball movement. Martin is a weak, passive defender who creates his openings almost exclusively through off-the-ball movement. Landry was a slightly undersized but quick PF with a strong mid-range game. Budinger is a slow perimeter player who has an average shooting touch from all areas on the floor. Out of curiosity, f you consider Artest/Martin to be "slightly" different, would you say that McGrady/Kobe are "moderately" different?
Six? I don't believe you should count Lowry/Brooks since they are who we're arguing about. So Battier, who has since declined; Scola and Hayes. I don't count Yao since he hasn't even really played this year and doesn't factor into Lowry's stats this year. You can't just plug in Martin for Artest and Jordan Hill for Landry and claim that it's the same team -- it completely changes the dynamic of the team. And we absolutely DO NOT have the same style of play as we did two years ago. That was the Yao-McGrady-Artest inside-out team. Since then, Adelman has been hanging out with Nellie and gone to the small-ball uptempo type offense. It's not even close to the same style of play, which is part of the reason you saw us decline in defense so drastically. He wouldn't have trouble being the sixth man? I think he's proven that? Would Aaron Brooks have trouble being the sixth man? If you don't care who starts, why are you arguing so vehemently against people wanting Brooks to be the 6th man? As I said, I'd fully expect Brooks to be in the game in the clutch, unless Lowry and the first unit have a good offensive flow. Regarding half court sets, I've maintained that I'd like to see Lowry play with Yao in this offense before saying 100% that Brooks should be moved to the 6th man -- but I do REALLY like the idea of AB as a scorer off the bench. Besides that, we don't even know if we'lll ever be able to count on Yao again.. so if we can't count on Yao, I assume you'd have even less of an objection to letting Lowry start?
It's because of Adelman's system that AB can't get a lot of assists. Oh wait... It's because Brooks plays with the starters. It's easier to get assists with the bench players we have. Oh wait...
I really don't see why people are so high on Brooks starting. Assuming that the other 4 starters are Martin, Battier, Scola, and Yao, it simply doesn't make sense to have Brooks on the court at the same time as them. It's accepted that Brooks/Martin would be one of the weakest defensive backcourts in the league, so there's no sense in addressing it further. Martin and Scola thrive on transition offense which is one of Lowry’s strengths. How many times have we seen Lowry push the ball and get it to Scola for a layup or Martin for an open 3? Even Battier takes advantage of transition 3 pointers from the corner (Lakers game). How many dunks has Hill gotten off transition offense? And yes, these cheap baskets don’t come as easily in the playoffs, but they still come. If you force the opponent to shoot long shots and play good defense, easy baskets will come. Before he sprained his ankle, Brooks was actually starting to remind me of McGrady in the sense that as soon as he got the ball in the backcourt, he’d walk it up and then run the offense….essentially wasting everyone else’s hustle. Since your starting lineup is so offensive minded, doesn’t it make sense to have a pg who will facilitate easier shots for them instead of taking shots away from them (albeit shooting at a respectable percentage)? Similarly, doesn’t it make sense for Brooks to come off the bench where his talents will be more properly utilized? And coming off the bench doesn’t necessarily mean fewer minutes or a diminished role. In late game situations where we need a basket, there’s no one on the team better than Brooks. But with that being said, I’ve believed for years now that Brooks can best serve the Rockets by coming off the bench.
No doubt, I hope his 3ball stays good, that would be a huge huge lift, and to me make it a much closer race as to who is better between AB and him. I think his confidence is shot, but he is still making the right passes, I am willing to give him some time to work it out, all good shooters have slumps. Morey the other day said even Ray Allen missed 17 in a row....so I am going to side with Morey here and say let's wait and see.... I would be in favor of a much shorter leash, or him being sent to the Dleague to work it out though. Exactly. I am happy Lowry is playing great, now maybe some GM will think he is a great starter and offer something nice for him..... BOOM- JUST BLEW THE PEANUT GALLARIES MINDS !!! :grin: DD
