not entirely true, they 3 2nd year players in brooks/scola/landry all who were low picks, artest, and wafer. It wasn't that they had more talent, they just fit much better. Artest is like the francis type of guy, in that he wants to be the man, but he at least plays defense.
you're not understanding my point. THOSE ARE THE PLAYERS THEY WANTED. We had fresh meat in the mid 2nd round pick range and we managed to get as much as we could out of it. That is what JVG wanted, its his fault. To him they were talented based on his philosophy of defense.
naw. 08-09 was just a more talented team. you dont always use when a player was drafted as a measure to determine talent. rajon rondo was a 21st overall pick. cato was trash and francis and cat also had to deal with a crap bench.
LOL You argued with Mr. Space City saying that there wasn't much of a talent difference between the 08/09 team and any team that Francis/Cat led. Forgot? Here it is: It doesn't matter where the players were picked. If you have talent, you just have talent. Mr. Space City was right in that the best team that Francis and Cat played on (the same team I referenced in my link) did not have as much talent and were not as deep. You want to say that it was JVG's fault for taking in non-scorers? That's fair to say to a certain extent only because you have to remember that CD needs to take some of the blame (as well as Les) for the piss poor talent the Rockets had around Steven and Mobley at that time. Hell, the next year after they got knocked out of the playoffs by the Lakers, they shipped out a third of the team for Tracy McGrady.
In this system... in this era - you take Brooks/Martin. The only reason its not an easy call is because Francis gives you that grit we don't have and can probably create 4th quarter shots better than AB/Martin. But when you factor in who is coaching you quickly disregard that notion.
offense - Brooks Martin Francis always dribble till the shot clock got to 1 second, and took a bad shot. Mobley is good, especially on defense.
Brooks/Martin - no doubt, they have more ability and are way way WAY smarter in their understanding of the game. DD
Back then, would anyone have said "Start Lowry over Steve Francis?" I'm really doubting it, and there's some sourpusses on this board. Thats not a knock on Brooks. Thats just to show how more undeniable Steve Francis was as a player. Brooks dribbles the ball away time to time also. Or he darts all fast past people but forgets to bring the ball with him. Francis played some strange defense, looking the active and alert part but didnt really stop anybody. Still his defense was better than Brooks'. I think Francis for all his stupidity would s**t all over Brooks in a head to head. Have to consider the systems they all played in. Mobley also played with Adelman at Sacramento, and worked that into a big contract. Still Brooks and Martin are a much better fit into the Adelman/Yao centric offense. Francis didnt take to non-ISO ball too well. Then also there's that "fouls drawn" aspect that Morey seems to like. Francis blows Aaron Brooks out the water in that stat. Though Brooks/Martin combined FTs would be more than Francis/Mobley (PER 36/Mins)
I think a lot of you are pushing Mobley to the side. He was a much better defender than Kevin Martin is at this point. He played good defense well before JVG came to the team. In fourth quarters, much like Martin, Cuttino was the go-to guy because of his scoring ability and free throw percentage. In terms of intelligent play, I'm not going to agree with Brooks and Martin being "smarter." Consider the offense that Francis and Cat we're playing under Rudy T. They were methodically put in iso-situations. Steve Francis used many of those iso plays to make an assist. Those countless double-double games were a result of basketball smarts. I'm not claiming either Cat or Steve are Shane Battier "smart," but they are comparable to Brooks/Martin. Fortunately for Aaron, he's a great shooter with limitless range. If he weren't, his shot selection would be horrendous. It's a toss up between each guard, in my opinion.
i think many of you that are claiming that Stevie wasn't a team player forget that if he DID have more talent around him, he could have been a nightly triple-double waiting to happen as well.. How many games did we see steve have when he would finish with 15+ pts, and 7-9asts, and 7-9 rebs?? a whole lot of em. You dont get triple-doubles by not having basketball smarts (See Lebron and J.Kidd). Those of you who claim that Steve and Cuttino didnt pass Yao the ball ALSO FORGET that Yao was CRAP in his first year and 2nd year began to show signs of improvement, but still couldn't be labeled as an elite Center. It was Yao's 3rd and 4th year where he began to show promise (the T-Mac era). But anyways...i'd rather just take Sam Cassell and Kenny Smith/Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell - only backcourts with Rings.. i'll take that any day.
(T-mac era)....even in the first year with Tracy, he wasn't "ready"... Anyone remember the pep talk Tracy gave him in the playoffs against the Mavs? Even with a cast of Barry, Wesley, Sura, Weatherspoon, and Juwon Howard...Rockets advance if Yao played well.
I think what you meant was rockets advance in either of the following scenarios: a) the series wasn't rigged b) every single player on our roster didn't age 40 years over night also tmac was incredible during that series. he's a douche but, at times he was jordanesque.
oh? okay, Steve was a tripple double threat and for you to say that the team "did have talent around him", but during that time, did we win alot of game to be a good team? hah, I don't think so. I'm taking the current duo, this duo w/ Yao has more potential
