Its kind of a ridiculous argument to suggest that because the universal things *everyone* enjoys provided by our government are tacitly utilized by these private institutions that somehow should prevent them from operating their business the way they see fit. Where do these business opt in or out of using the police, firefighters, or public works departments? If you go by that model, you're opening the door to a whole crapload of government intervention in our private lives. I know it is unpleasant to think that racist, prejudice people exist. But sorry, they do. And they damn near always will. I don't want my government in the business of legislating niceness, manners, and behavioral control unless their actions cause me unavoidable personal injury.
Exactly. If you allow people to come off the street then its a public business. You have to be a member(there has to be some consideration like membership fee) to get in like a country club, you can discriminate. An example is Augusta National. If you are dance club that just takes money for entrance from people off the street then you are not allowed to discriminate against the protected classes. They can discriminate if you are ugly, smelly, or fat but not the protected classes of age, race, skin, sex, or religion.
Sounds like a good place to go if you are willing to take an beating to own a club. Video tape the place for awhile then send in somebody willing to take a beating and get the cops and bouncer in on it an you are set. Sue the club and the cops.
Which is why discrimination is not legal at any of these privately owned establishments that do business with the public. The idea that a business is simply private or public is overly simplistic.
This was before Live even existed. My wife went to law school with one of Stack's partners at Live. I thought they both had something to do with Bronx prior to Live.
The success of our society depends on everyone being able to partake on every level. Opportunity for work, pleasure, life, housing. You can create a private club, and be very selective who is a member to that club. But you can't make something available to the public and then discriminate. Once you open something to the public, it's falls under the Federal Civil Rights Act. Are you saying you disagree with the Federal Civil Rights Act? Because that's a completely different debate.
The market isn't always that fluid. Consider that under segregation there could still be businesses that catered to blacks in black neighborhoods yet there wasn't the same amount of businesses serving blacks as there were whites. One could argue that a big market was going untapped but the nature of racism doesn't usually make economic sense.
There is s such a thing as the commons and the problem with having businesses, especially one in Rice Village, opt out of public infrastructure is that it puts the rest of the community at risk. If Bronx Bar goes up in flames they can't just tell firefighters they have opted out since the fire will spread to other buildings. Private lives is one thing and you are free to discriminate as much as you want when it comes to your home but but running a business that both uses the commons and seeks to profit from the public is a different matter. Businesses are already expected to abide by all sorts of regulations including the Americans with Disabilities Act. If the government can mandate that you have to build wheelchair ramps and wheelchair accessable toilet stalls they can certainly mandate that you allow people of all races into your business. Sure those people do and they are free to discriminate in private but once they are using the commons and seeking to profit off of them that is a different matter.
Again, this country has been down that path before. Those who do not learn from History are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. If you think it's okay to let "private" businesses discriminate, not everybody will share your exact ideals of fairness and bend the rules as they see fit. It is only a matter of time before the standards get lowered and lowered until overt racism is normal. History is full of those examples. Where do you draw the line of what is okay and what isn't? This is America. All men are created equal. We aren't perfect but we should strive towards a better country. To argue that any form of discrimination should be accepted is frankly ...unAmerican.
I have no problem with clubs or bars not letting a group of dudes in or letting them in slowly to have a good mixture of chicks. Now if they're using it as way to screen race then yeah that's a problem.
They should be able to file discrimination charges.....it is not a private club......it is a public one... And if they are being discriminatory, they are breaking the law. DD
Oh, come on Donny, they were threatening castration! Are we gonna split hairs here? Am I wrong? Mr. Malph, do you remember segregation? That it actually existed, and didn't all just sprout from Gene Hackman's ad-lib in Mississippi Burning?
please don't do me the disservice of comparing my desire to give private business owners the right to run their businesses into the ground with government sponsored/mandated racism. thanks.
Sure. But racist businesses weren't "run into the ground" during segregation. The invisible hand of the free market didn't solve that one. If say, another 9/11 happened, can't you see a bunch of private businesses en masse refuse to serve Muslims/Arabs in this country? That wouldn't (in the short-medium term, at least) negatively affect their businesses, and might actually help them. Absent measures to combat such "private" racism in the public marketplace, couldn't some form of segregation spring up again?
What's up oomp. Bronx Bar I personally never had anything to do with. Most people thought we did because we were always there and helped them with things back in the day. Bronx was originally owned by 3 people one of them was the person that went to law school with your wife probably, his brother and one of their friends. Me and my 2 partners ended up partnering with them originally when Live first opened up and then we bought them out leaving just us 3. Those original owners of Bronx sold their interest a few years ago to a couple of guys that used to own a few other bars in Houston as well as manage Bronx a long time ago. It's still within a group of guys that I know and helped Bronx out in the past but Not the original owners from way back when. Hope that clears that up.
