I wasn't able to find anything on a search engine where Givens actually came out and said he was gay. I did find the ESPN piece in 1998 where he denies being gay. http://sports.espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/otl1998_gay_athletes.html But on 610 am this morning John McClain mentioned a certain WR for the Oilers who was gay, but never said his name. I'm sure he was refering to Givens. I also remember seeing Givens back in the day walking around in hoe shorts on tv after a Texans playoff loss. ------------------------------------------- .....Ley - But the rumors are out there. We hear them all the time. Within the past few weeks, one NFL star addressed his teammates to combat whispers that he's gay or bisexual. In reporting for this show, we consistently heard rumors mentioning one name time and again, three-time Pro Bowl wide receiver Ernest Givins, a 10-year NFL veteran. He's been retired for three seasons. And while he still doesn't believe the rumors throw him from the game, when he talked to Andrea Kramer two years ago, it was obvious the rumors took a toll. Andrea Kramer - Had these rumors always been out there about you? Ernest Givins, NFL wide receiver - Definitely, yes. Kramer - You've heard them? Givins - I've heard them. Kramer - What do you hear? Givins - He's gay. Don't worry about him, he's gay. Kramer - So I'll ask you, are you gay? Givins - No. Kramer - If you were, would you tell me? Givins - Yes. Yes, if I were I would tell you. Kramer - People are going to watch that and they're going to hear that comment you just made and they're going to say, "Well, of course he's going to say that. Of course he's going to stay in the closet. Of course." Givins - I'm prepared about that, too. You can tell when a person is lying and you can tell when a person is telling the truth. And that camera is right in my face, I'm sure, and people know from by the looks of your eyes. If I have something to hide, I'll be sitting here doing an interview with my sunglasses on my face. I'll be sitting here doing an interview with my hat turned a different way with my sunglasses on. I don't have anything to hide. This is Ernest Givens and this is what you got and I'm not gay. Kramer - I think that the strange thing, and you seem to be aware of this, is that the rumors have been out there for so long. How can that be? Givins - How could that be? Because, one, when they have Super Bowl parties I don't go, one, when they have major type events I don't go, another thing, when they have things that involve with a lot of players, I don't go. So everybody feels that if I'm not a part of something that's major, and I'm not a part of something that's "outstanding," then I'm hiding something. I'm not hiding anything. I'm not hiding not one thing at all. They can say whatever they want to say. Kramer - Is this more of an albatross than people would understand? Is this more of a burden than people would understand? Givins - I think it is. I think it is. People just don't know how hard it is in today's society to make it. But when you have bad things lingering over your head, that makes it even tougher. Kramer - What can you do about it? Givins - Nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Kramer - You work with young receivers. Givins - Yes. Kramer - You've taken young receivers under your wing. Givins - Yes. Kramer - Rumors abound, Ernest is hitting on the young guys. Do you hear that? Givins - Yeah. Kramer - What's the worst it's ever gotten for you? Givins - I guess just when you see a person that's been your friend for a long time and then you find out they're the ones that's saying it. That hurts the most. And that same person is in your face everyday. Kramer - This happened to you when you were with the Oilers? Givins - Yeah. Yeah. Kramer - Did you ever confront that person? Givins - No, never. Kramer - You want to? Givins - I want to grab him by the neck and choke the crap out of him. That's what I want to do, but I don't do that. Kramer - In the course of a game against an opponent - you have a DB that's up against you at the line or something or walking into an opposing stadium, do people ever yell things or opponents ever just taunt you? Givins - Yeah. Kramer - Do you have any of this stuff? Givins - No, not about those things. Kramer - Because some players said, "Yeah, Ernestine." You heard that one? Givins - Yeah. Yeah. Kramer - Who calls you Ernestine? Givins - I can't pinpoint who. Like I said, I wish I could. I would grab him by the neck and choke the crap out of him. But, yeah, Ernestine. And I laugh a good, fake laugh. But deep down inside you just don't know I want to take his head and beat the out of you, but I'm not going to do that. Kramer - Is being gay one of the worst things that could be said about an athlete? Givins - Yes. Kramer - If somebody said Ernest Givens hit his girlfriend, it wouldn't be as bad as somebody saying Ernest Givens is gay? Givins - Right. If they say, I found Ernest Givens driving at 140 miles an hour, get pulled over with cocaine in his car, or whatever the case may be, that's nothing. They say, one, we see that and hear that every day with athletes. But when you start stereotyping athletes, start putting that gay thing on them, that hurts more than anything. That hurts more than anything. Kramer - And what does that say about sports or what does that say about athletes or what does that say about a closed mentality that it does hurt so much? Givins - That's why athletes never like to talk about it, because it hurts so bad..................
trust me, I'm not exxageratting about the asian male touching thing. There's more PDA than me and my girl when we out. I wasn't aware that there was a law against homosexuals in China. i do know that historically open gays have controlled the government in China in the past. The history of the eunuchs is filled with this. The most famous book in china (Romance of the 3 Kingdoms) portrays the son of Liu Bei (the most viruous character and much loved King of Shu) as a rampant homosexual who loses his kingdom because of his dalliances with a eunuch. Homosexuals in general have a more open history in Asia than in the West. We can also look at Thailand and Japan, but we can save that for a later time
These works are so much larger than the politcal questions they are addressing. Especially the Inferno, which goes on to Purgatory, and Paradise. Also, you seem to take the critical stance that works like Heart of Darkness are about politics, when I would vehemently deny that. 1984, is good, but I would not call it great literature. But most of all is comes down to a question of taste, I agree with Tolstoy when he writes he would never write a work to address one politcal topic. I think when an author becomes engrossed by the political and chooses a side, they limit their work.
So is Brokeback political or cultural? Why is the movie political? Do they go out and vote in it? Good art will always be personal, btw. Whoever said that "movies sucks when it is personal" doesn't know a single thing about about art.
I'd make a distinction between work that is about politics, and work that is political. I guess you would too. Heart of Darkness was written with British Imperial policy in Africa in mind, or, the lack of policy in practice. And you neglected to note that Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo was intended to be an example of inner-city collectivism coming to being as a bulwark against herrenvolk democracy which had become institutionalized, and hence, the need to use the "funky worm" to defend one's rights.
For anybody still interested, Brokeback Mountain made $2.4 million from just 69 (insert joke here) theaters. It's the first movie in four years to make the top ten while playing in less than 100 theaters....
Those are surface questions in HOD, which is much more concerned with a search for truth, a truth that in Conrad's view is nihilistic and makes Kurtz scream out the horror the horror. To read it as a work on imperialism is to miss the point. The worm dance is man's initial reaction to that which cannot be known, is it God? Despair? The Abyss?
True, but to neglect the role of imperialism in the story is to miss the setting and background. It's not the point of the book, but it is a point of the book. HOD did have a concern with contemporaneous political happenings, as many works of art do. But to expect any work to be wholly about politics is not realistic, and not what I'm arguing. The funky worm is about the reversal of power - it is where Hobbe's Leviathan is transformed, metaphorically, into a guy with parachute pants and good coordination.
I think people can act in a lot of roles. I don't believe that acting homosexual in this role will hurt their chance at acting like a hetero in other roles. Daman Wayans played a flamboyant gay movie critic on In Living Color. Afterwards he played a heterosexual drill seargent in Seargent Pain. I think some actors can play good guys and bad guys.
Well I'm not arguing the opposite; all I'm saying is when a work of art becomes overtly concerned with politics or proving a political stance, it is cheapened. I couldn't disagree more vehemently. It's about property, intellectual property, and the mind's ability to put experience into words, or in this case, worms.
I'm not saying that they can't act in different roles, I'm questioning whether audiences will accept them in other roles. Both Heath and Jake are great actors, I just think that these roles might affect their ability to draw a crowd in other roles. BTW, I htink thats the first time any of the Wayans brothers have been put on the same level, acting wise, as either Ledger or Gyllenhal
atlas shrugged all quiet on the western front the color purple huckleberry finn grapes of wrath the jungle all the president's men brothers karamzov the penal colony red badge of courage uncle tom's cabin vs naipaul farenheit 451 silent spring the world according to garp etc. a work of art is expression. that can be personal, political, reactionary, whatever. and because it's personal, it's also subjective. you don't have to like it, but there's no rule that states that art cannot be political. imo - brokeback mountain is only political because american society is still corseted by literalists and 19th century values.
sucks war ehh never got into her stuff, too...mmm political? How is this about politics? Not really considered great in many circles, although I like it. Still not so much about politics as it is about the human spirit. Not considered great about fictional politics rather than a specific political question Maybe, I missed the politics in this one? Maybe, maybe no. never read That timeless high school classic not really considered great literature, but maybe an exception never read Never said there was a rule that said it coulnd't be political, just that it cheapens and often keeps it from being a great work of literature. The wierd ass girl who sat behind me in literature class in high school probably had a whole catalogue of poetic self-expression, doesn't make her work anything more than personal vomit spewed on a piece of paper. What's wrong with 19th century values?
