This isn't about money and affording to go to games. I paid 15 bucks for a playoff ticket in 88' - they weren't hard to get. It was a crappy seat, but who cares? Houstonians have a better standard of living then New Yorkers I'd bet, and taking your family out to a game a few times a year isn't going to break the bank. Again, I'm not calling you individuals fair-weathered (except Raufman who acts like one), I'm calling Houston a fair-weathered town. No one is telling anyone to be a fan to enrich your life, but it's part of living in the city and having fun. Even when your team sucks. Anyway, there's no more point in posting on this. Someone called Les Alexander a carpet bagger from Florida, which to me proves a hell of a lot about what I think about Houston. He's not a saint, but if you look at him...at how willing he has been to spend money, the fact that he quieted Hakeems discontent, put faith in Tomjanovich, and was willing to to what ever Dawson wanted....that's why Houston became classy franchise. In the end, I suppose it really doesn't matter if a person is fair weathered or not...but geez, I hate these excuses of "not being able to afford ticket prices"...Houston is the fourth largest city in America! It sold out it's games easily during it's run, and can do so now. Anyway, to the fans who stick with a team true the bad times and finally get deliverance when their teams win...well as Gene always says "How sweet it is".
Call me whatever you will...it doesn't matter. I was going to Rockets games at a time when I didn't really have the money to spend and the team absolutely sucked. I just enjoyed going to the games because I was raised on the Houston sports teams.
I try to take it easy on people who seem young, I have no desire to rip on kids. Houston's definitely my team, but I've gone to games whereever I've been...I've gone to Clipper games, Sixers games when i lived in philly, and even bullet games before they were the wiz. I'm more a fan of basketball, but I got into basketball and started playing basketball by getting excited about players when i was a kid - as I think is pretty common. It just always seems that people in Houston are looking for respect instead of just enjoying what they already have. I guess people look down on Houston a lot for not having a lot of culture or being a pretty city, or having much that distinguishes it...and finally for having flaky fans. What is Houston known for? And that's not meant to be a rip on the city, but c'mon? The Astrodome? Most people probably think of Enron. At the very least, Houston could be known for it's die hard fans...but it's not, because MOST Houstonians, and my most I mean the average Houstonian, doesn't give a bleep about rooting for the home team unless they are a power.
sigh. If you ever consider writing as a career, I should be your editor. Look at the attendance of the New York Yankees - when they were bad, they were at the bottom of the AL in attendance. When they were good, it rose to the top. This isn't rocket science - Americans associate themselves with winners, and dissassociate themselves with teams that aren't. It's a way of life, and I've come to the conclusion that no city has a stranglehold on such behaviour, nor are they immune.
I wanted to post something, but it's nothing that can be said better than ZRB did. Nothing pisses me off more than coming to a site that is basically named after Olajuwon to find some jackholes bad mouthing the Dream. The cold hard truth is that Rudy and his system turned his back on Dream, when he still had his stuff, and they landed Steve Francis. Barkely going down made it that much easier to turn to rebuilding. Hakeem still has it. He proved it in that run his last season with the Rockets. *virtually the last time the rockets played better than .500 ball* I'm praying that Hakeem's health doesn't get in the way in Toronto this year. With Keon out of the way, and without and more "youth movements" to deal with from inept coaching staffs Hakeem will show, again, why he is the best center of all time. Nothing would warm my heart more than to watch the Raptors defeat the Lakers in the finals, which is nothing to bet against given Carter's good health. The league is completely youth obsessed, and a lot of you are brainwashed by the media. Where'd did these young unpolished *stars* get us in the worlds? So please, keep spewing your ignorant "he's old and washed up" routine. I'll take guys like Hakeem and Jordan right now, over anybody in the world.
Hakeem doesn't have it anymore. It's called age, and no one is immune to its ravages. No matter how brilliant the player, how fast he runs, how high he jumps, how hard he plays can beat age. It happens to every player, it happened to Hakeem.
Look...it pains me to say it, but Hakeem does not have it anymore. His body is ravaged with injury and will likely be forced to retire due to those injuries. Sad...but true. BTW...Jordan doesn't have it anymore either.
Dennis, I was talking to NewYorker about who he should be directing his critique towards. If you are 30 something, and are a die-hard fan, then fine. That's great, this post does not apply to you. I'm 34, so I'm not singling out all 30,40,50 year olds. I'm just saying that a lot of posters on this board are young and are very defensive of their short Rocket loyalty, and I don't blame them. We all have to start following the Rockets at some point. So, I wanted to make it clear to NewYorker it wasn't fair to bash the young fans of the Rockets. I'm sure you know some older "30, 40, 50 somethings" that couldn't have cared less about the Rockets LAST year! But, you watch. Those so called "fans" will come out of the woodworks this year if the Rockets start winning. Tisks, tisks.. Guess what I was doing during the 1994 finals? Watching the game, having a Bud, true, true... No, really...I was in Maryland, watching the game and after they won and I was freaking out jumping up and down... The people here in my dormatory (Maryland) thought I was a raving lunnatic! They came out of their rooms asking, "What they hell are you yelling about?" They, of course, had no idea that the Rockets won. They could'nt have cared less. This was very different from when the Dallas Cowboys would win. Everyone in the nation knew when the Cowboys would win. And the Chicago Bulls!!! After a while I figured out why no one (outside Houston) cared about the 1994 Rockets title... ...ugly ball, predictable offense, defense only, only one all-star, one which couldn't speak very good english (Hakeem). Remember, at the time Hakeem wasn't a legend. He was just another good player. What about the "fans" that can afford to go to every game, but only show up when the Rockets are winning? Great again....
It sounds like you are trying to defend your "right" be a fair-weather fan... "...the other cities are fair-weather too..." Nevertheless, Baltimore Orioles, Chicago Cubs, and Boston Red Socks have managed to incorporate "going to the game" as a part of their city's heritage/history even during a losing season. It's the place to be! Taking your son to a game, going out with friends, having a good time watching the game, enjoying the atmosphere, and supporting your team. Houston needs to do this. Set an example too. The Rockets franchise are on their way in building this type of history. P.S. If you think that NewYorker is opinionated, you need to visit a bar in downtown Boston! Man, those people are rabid! Want to know how start a bar room brawl? Mention Babe Ruth! Another way, mention that Larry Bird couldn't jump.
Nice examples but when is the last time any of those teams won a championship? Those team have a few things going for them that other teams do not...such as: 1. They have been around a long time..much longer than any Houston sports franchise. 2. Those teams have made an art form out of being hard luck , lovable losers..curse of the Bambino, Cubs haven't won since forever, etc. 3. They have classic home ballparks that are considered shrines by many baseball fans. ( Camden Yards is truly a magnificent sight and will be considered a shrine as history passes on) Houston will have a tradition given the proper elapsed time. I think the Rockets are well on their way considering the likable coach, great practice facilities, a state of the art new stadium, good ownership ( besides the Hakeem issue...partly his fault and partly management's fault). I disagree that there are more bandwagon fans than true fans here in Houston. Not eveybody supports the home team in which they live, especially if they are from another city or country. I do not fault a person from another city or country not supporting the home team nor would I label the city fair-weather because of that either. If I ever moved to another city, I would never stop rooting for the Houstons teams. I would expect nothing less from anybody else. If when you say that Houston is a fair weather town, you include the people who are not fans of Houston, I cannot totally disagree. That would be the same in most cities. Houston is an example of diversity and I think that is a strength and an asset. I wouldn't say I am thinned skinned but Houston is my home. I was born and raised here and I guess I can be little protective of it.
Maybe we don't have big fan base because a lot people that live here, come from other cities and countries, we have a big emmigration influx...so they don't have loyalities like people that live here a long time have. Face it, Houston doesn't have tradition as far as sports teams go...and we are basically a football town...even when we didn't have a football team. I guess having a ugly city...err didn't you say "UN-distinguished" and not having a lot of culture or being pretty...well whatever it is, we can't seem to stop people from other places moving here...mostly international people. Oh yea, its pretty cool how you down Houston sports fans for not being "die-hard fans"....especially when you do it on a bbs that has nothing but die-hard fans... I mean the average Houstonian, doesn't give a bleep about rooting for the home team unless they are a power. Wow, I guess the city Houston has the only fans that don't come out and watch games when their teams suck. I'm sure if the yankees were 63-100 for a few years that you guys would still sellout every game of course, with a population of 18 million, you should sellout. Sorry, but the more you type away, the more you seem like a trollish *******...in fact you're very similar to the annoying bulls fan that just got "banded"
Houston's just not a very sexy city. Sure everyone tries to sell it as an international city, but it's not that to anyone outside of it. The only thing Houston had to build off of was it's moniker the "Space City". That's what it consistantly has tried to sell itself as. Astros and Rockets. It was a smart Idea to give the city an Identity, but it never finished the job. Had Houston focuses solely on making this it's identifier by consistantly building everything with the theme of high-tech innovative ideas, and architecture in it's building to reflect that...It might have been a more unusual city, gain more world wide appeal, and had a better chance at the Olympic bid. Houston lacks character. I'm beginning to see a relation between the fans and a city's character. Teams like St Louis, Chicago, Boston, Philly have Character. I mean, Dallas has character. Why doesn't Houston. Anyway, I'm not going to say anymore on this matter. It's really not my intent to offend people or make them feel bad. This all came out of my disappointment the Houston didn't support the Astros while they were still in the wild card hunt...and it's done and over, so who cares.
When they get the new arena done and the rail and roads fixed down here it will be a whole lot better than it was / has been. The loaction of the old stadiums and arenas didn't allow the city to have character in a traditional way. I think that is going to change fast.
Most of your facts and ideas are based on your general ignorance about Houston . Don't really feel like arguing about it. Just thought you should know how stupid you sound, even though you think you're "in the know".
I like the idea of bringing Hakeem back to Houston- not as a player, but as an asst coach - a la Pat Ewing. Hakeem could really benefit Yao's development and maintain ties to the city. CD shouldn't trade for him- rather wait out Cato ridiculous deal and wait for Hakeem to hang 'em up. With Griffin, Yao, Francis, Mobley and Taylor the future is looking very bright for Houston again.
I hear ya. I remember back in 1997 or so there were discussions regarding the design of Enron Field. One of the ideas was to put a wooden back drop of the city in center field. And when someone hit a home run there wooden skyline would light up....sigh...tacky!!! The problem with being "space city" is that any building / architecture that is designed with that in mind is burdened with the responsibility to maintain that "space age" look and feel over time. But, as anyone who knows the Astrodome, it was "space age" during its time. But the "space age" of today soon becomes the "stone age" of yesterday. This why I'm glad that Minute Maidfield was built with the red brick design that creates a nostalgia / antique look and feel, while still maintaining the history/character of the city. I would really like it if Houston started concentrating on the history of Texas rather than "space age" things. Houston has a great Texas heritage. The San Jacinto battle site is part of Houston history. Remember, that Houston's "Texas HISTORY" is older than Houston's "space history."
Dallas has already capitalized on being the "Texas" city. When people think of Texas, they think of Dallas. Big D. Deep in the heart of Texas. I mean, it's not fair, but Dallas had a number one TV show. Go around the world, and ask what city people identigy Texas with, and it's probably Dallas. Maybe Yao will change that in China (if they even know what Texas is). The Astrodome may be ugly, but it actually does give Houston character belief it or not. It's only the Superdome that stole it's stardom. The Superdome looks like a piece of architecture, the Astrodome looks like a barn. I think the only way for Houston to internationalize itself is to focus on the one thing it has - the space industry. It needs to do something novel. I've never seen Enron field, but from what I have seen, it doesn't fit in with Houston. Great cities have monuments to their greatness. SF has the GG bridge and trolley's, L.A. has Hollywood, NY has statue of Liberty and the BKLN bridge. New Orleans has the french qtr, Paris has the eiffel tower, syndey the opera house. Even St Louis has a dumb arch. Houston has muggy weather, lots of freeways, gallery furniture, and what else? The most historical building was the Four Seasons Hotel or whatever, and they tore it down. There's nothing wrong with that, Houston just isn't a very sexy place. It's kinda boring. But it's cheap and parking is easy to find, so hey, not so bad. If anything, Houston has a rich basketball history, perhaps one of the few things it has to it's name. Things like Westside Tennis Court make Houston a basketball city, it may even become Mecca some day. But if I were Houston city planners, I'd definitely capitalize on their sports teams and the space motiff to sell the city, and ask they question - what can we do to make people want to spend time in Houston. Houston needs to develop its own identity, and i don't think the battle of San Jacinto is going to cut it on a nation or international level. Right now, when people think of Houston, they think of Enron...and that's sad for even me to see because I used to live there. What defines Houston? What can you do in Houston that you can't do anywhere else? Visit NASA? The coolest place in Houston is that gray museum...I can't remember it's name...Menil? And Star Pizza. Anyway, I'm sure over time it will develop something, millions of people will want to see something. Houston's skyline actually isn't that coming up the Nolan Ryan Expressway.
When they built the ballpark I got an education about my family. My Dad was relaying stories about growing up downtown and he recalls the time when trains still came in through Union Station. In fact Union Station was the center of all activity in Houston when he was a kid (born in Houston in 1938). In fact, every time I go down there I walk right past the spot where my grandfather (who died before I was born) had a restaurant adjacent to the Ben Milam Hotel. It's one of the things that makes me wish I had known him...to hear those stories about Houston "back in the day." But I have me Dad for that I guess. Anyway...I think they did a great job on the ballpark. I'll ALWAYS have fond memories of the Astrodome, having gone to countless games there as a kid...but a baseball fan just can't fail to love Minute Maid Park.
I think you're talking about the Shamrock Hilton. Elvis stayed there, and the Beatles...and countless others. That hotel was a huge deal (and should have been declared a historic landmark). It was located adjacent to the Medical Center.
