By the way, Refman, I'm not trying to single you out...it's just that as NewYorker said, it's a "general vibe of the city" that's all. Think about this. Let's say that you went to a game last year (Rockets). Your sitting in the stands and you look around. You notice that there are about 10,000 fans in attendance. No one of real importance; just die hard fans. Now, this year the Rockets get off to a good start. They go 6-0. You try to go to a game and they are sold out. Then, you try again (against Memphis) and you get a ticket. You look around and you see George Forman, Evander Holyfield, Jaclyn Smith, George Bush, and Former Governor Ann Richards in the stands...Hmmm....you think to yourself...now how did they get such good seats? Where were they a year ago? I guess Ann Richards was working on her basketball skills on her 1000 acre ranch, and decided to show up at the Compaq Center and try out for the Rockets huh? Fair-weather...I've seen it time and time again.
I grew up in Houston and started watching Houston Cougars basketball with Hakeem and Clyde. I went to all the playoff games I could get tickets to that I could afford and use to sit in the very last row with the same really fat guy who banged against the back wall to make noise. I remember watching them lose in many series from the Lakers to Seattle. I remember the triple overtime game when Hakeem literally carried the team on his back against seattle to still lose. I remember that game going until 2 o'clock in the morning with Gene Petterson screaming hoping praying they would pull it out and I had school the next day. You know, I was the only one celebrating when Houston Beat New York in the finals...I got kicked out of the bar I was watching the game at. I know what it's like to be a Houston's sports fan for more then a decade and always be disappointed. Maybe you don't know that...maybe you just don't remember? I do. I have the cover of the Houston Chronicle the day after the Rockets won their first championship. I wasn't there, but I still have it, as brown and stiff as it's getting. I still go to Rockets games, I shell out money to go to MSG to see two lottery teams play. I get to see the Rockets and Astros play once every blue moon even on TV. You guys are lucky, you can go see them whenever you want, live or on TV. But you don't. And that's why Houston fans suck and always will until they learn to appreciate their teams. Both the Rockets and the Stros try to put together winners. Most cities don't have that. Be glad you aren't Golden State or Mikwaukee. No one in Houston cared that Nolan Ryan left until after he pitched a no-hitter and did well with the Rangers. Houston's fans are fair weathered...it's always been that way. The jump on the band wagon for a winner, and jump off when they lose. And as for the Texans. I'm sorry, that's a dumb name. Texans? What team is named after the state? And the eblem was ripped of from the Texas long-horns. Hey, that's my opinion, you got yours, I have mine. As for New Yorkers...like I said...at least they go to the games.
Frankly, I don't see you know about Hakeem or the Rockets enough to make that kind of absurd statements. Hakeem was seriously going DOWNHILL. Plagued with health problems like asthma, hernia, knee injury and deterioating skills and stamina... The old man ran up and down the floor panting and sweating and most times he could only walk up the court! And so many nights he gets insulted by getting beaten by the likes of Obina Ekizie. It was painful to watch. If he wants to play ten more years, then I'd say "NO WAY" as I don't want to see him die on the floor. Your suggestion, even in a hypo sense, is just absurd. Let him know he's no longer his former self and let the man retire in honor in a Rockets uniform, that's LOVE.
First...I'd love to go...but I don't see myself shelling out $750 so Mrs. Ref and I can go to 12 games with mediocre seats. That's why I have never really gone to many games at the arena...too bloody expensive. Just to show I'm not a bad fan...last season I had my best man take me to a Rockets game in lieu of a bachelor party. But I digress... You're talking about sellouts versus an arena about 2/3 full. If the team isn't very good attendance goes down. That happens EVERYWHERE. Ironically it happens more often in the South. Not many sellouts in Dallas when they were bad or in Atlanta, well ever for basketball. Although I'm willing to bet that business wasn't that brisk in Chicago last season either. You make some interesting points and I don't totally disagree. But there's more to the story than what you're saying.
NewYorker, I was talking to my dad about why Houston fans are so fair-weather and this was his explanation (he lives in Mississippi now)... He said that back in 1960/61 Houston Oilers won two straight titles in the AFL. They lost, ironically, to the Dallas Texans in 1962 in the title game. Houston first franchise had immediate success. Houston fans were spoiled. When they realized that building a winner was hard work, they shied away from it. I mean, when you get something easily, you TAKE IT FOR GRANTED. Staying on top is hard! I think the Rockets are the first fanchies to "teach" this to the Houston fans. Have patients. It's funny. When I meet a Houstonian that now lives OUTSIDE of Houston they seem to have a better perspective on sports. But everyone that still lives in Houston are stuck in their narrow-mindedness. Not all. Just most.
I remember. I remember running around the house yelling in celebration with my buddies. I remember in 1995 pouring champagne all over my college buddies when we swept the Magic. I still have the "Clutch City" video and get weepy whenever I watch it. There are quite a few of us who do. I agree. I know our guys try to field a winner. I have defended Drayton McLane in other threads. I personally saw a lot of people really pissed before the ink on Nolan's Rangers contract was even dry. I just don't agree with that statement. Not based on homerism...but based on what I SAW. I agree...but I'm just glad we're back in the league. So much so that I really don't care what the hell McNair decided to call them.
So your logic is what...Olajuwon is above criticism and Ewing is not? Olajuwon wins a championship posting 39.6 mpg, 27.8 ppg, 10.8 rpg & 3.36 blocks/g. 5 seasons later, the numbers drop to 26.6 mpg, 11.9 ppg, 7.4 rebs and 1.52 blocks and he gets paid $16m for the effort. Now, on what basis is a player allowed unlimited free range to make contracts demands in excess of his skill level? You obviously have not watched enough hoops over the last several years to have seen Hakeem get stuffed by the rim in his dunk attempts...ahhh...but the good fans in NY would have overlooked the contract demands and the blown dunks if there were championship banners in the rafters. I watched the Lottery selection this year where the NY fans loudly booed the Rockets selection of Yao Ming (right after they booed Stern for walking on the stage). And you want me to believe the NY fans would be forgiving for Olajuwon staying at the party too long? Next you'll want to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge.
Hakeem actually was a mentor. People keep saying everytime this subject is brought up that he never mentored anyone. Othella Harrington has said differently, and I saw Hakeem on an Inside the NBA mentoring Ndiaye. Hakeem even tried to help tutor Shawn Bradley before a game. Hakeem definitely has taken a teaching role with other players. He may not have mentored Cato, but judging by Cato's normal work ethic, I'm not sure he was willing to be mentored. It would be nice to pick Hakeem up for a ten day contract, and then let him retire a Rocket. Outside of that I don't think he has too much value at this point in his career to the team. As far as Hakeem being all about the $$? I dont' think it flys. If we was all about the money he would have accepted that fat contract with Nike shoes. He didn't do it, and instead signed one for a lot less with Spalding, and his shoes cost only around $20. That's not the action of someone who cares only about the money. I do think that when he left Houston, he believed that money offered equaled respect. I think that was, in some part, a wrong decision. I think pride got in his way, and he overestimated what he had left in the tank. That was wrong, but it doesn't make Hakeem the devil who screwed over the Houston Rockets. I think the Rockets were surprised that Hakeem wasn't going to retire, and didn't have a plan on handle the situation, and they messed up with their initial offer which was an insult. After that Hakeem felt unwanted, and reacted that way.
Great post FranchiseBlade. Good stuff NewYorker: He single handedly excised the demon, the chip-on-the-shoulder, the "chock" label, the black cloud that has followed Houston for so many year...it's entire sports history...from Phi Slamma Jamma to the Oilers, to the Astros. -- Or look at the Lakers. They let Magic come back and back and coach and make an ass out of himself as many times as he wanted to. Because they knew, you don't ever cross a made-man...a man who made your team part of the history books.
FranchiseBlade. You guys are just clinging to outdated arguments. <blockquote>they messed up with their initial offer which was an insult. After that Hakeem felt unwanted, and reacted that way.</blockquote> Considering his last season and recent developments, do you really still believe our initial offer was an insult. The original offer was too much, imo. We were willing to pay him too much, because he had added value to the franchise. If anything, our deal was too short on years, not money, and time has proven Les was right about the years.
You are aware of the fact that Rudy T is on record as saying that re-signing all of the FA's was the start point last summer? And that if the Rockets had no plans for Olajuwon, they would have needed to renounce his contract - which they didn't do. Even though he was a FA, his $16m final contract plus a percentage hit the salary cap until he was re-signed or renounced thus leaving MoT, Shandon, Moochie and the MCE in limbo until he was handled. And you are further aware that at 12:01 AM on the day a player could first be contacted about contract signings, Rudy T was either on Olajuwons front door or on the phone calling him? (Sorry, I don't remember which...but is a documented fact at CC). You are 100% correct on the pride factor and overestimating how much gas was in the tank.
ZRB - Correct, everyone misses dunks but.... I know you watch alot of NBA hoops so you know that Hakeems reaction to the misses was most often to laugh about it. HOF'er or rookie, that type of reaction stems from a lack of intensity.
Almost every city with diverse entertainment opportunities will NOT pack a sports event if the team is not winning. Some won't even pack it if they are winning. Look at the Twins this year. Their attendance is abysmal for a division winner. They had around 12000 for a game last week against the Tigers. Name one city where there are a number of other sports/entertainment options, where they routinely sell out if their team is NOT in contention. NewYorker - How old are you? People in Houston were up in arms when Ryan went to the Rangers. They (we) were extremely disappointed.
A couple thoughts on that season, and the departure... Of course the Rockets were surprised that Hakeem wasn't going to retire. For at least three years he had been saying that he was in the twilight of his career, and that he was going to walk away from the game after his Rocket contract ended. The organization planned based upon Olajuwon's word. It was training camp that final season in Houston that he started to change his mind. The refusal to have his promotional picture taken with the setting sun should've been a major clue. From there on, the relationship was all downhill. Olajuwon showed nothing on the court, was schooled repeatedly by less talented (albeit younger) centers, and his frustration boiled over to him demanding to be cut loose so he could play for a coach (Pat Riley) that "knew how to use a big man." An insult to the Rockets' coach and to the organization. That doesn't make him a "devil," but it effectively sapped the last of my good will for the present incarnation of Olajuwon. (Rudy might forgive him, but he got no points with me for the "make nice" publicity stunt of calling the coach on the air to clarify his statements) When that didn't happen, and he was stuck with this organization for the rest of the season, he managed to be a team player, and use his remaining skills to the best advantage of the team. Good enough, but it didn't quite remove the lingering bad taste. The season ended. After he refused the initial one-year offer (which in retrospect was fair, and what he deserved), he allowed his agent to make life more difficult for the Rockets organization. He never had any intention of resigning here for any amount, and should've just walked. The Rockets could've then moved on with their business, and no additional hard feelings. Dragging it out, and pretending to listen was downright disrespectful. What is the point of re-opening these old wounds? Really just to say "hell, no, we don't 'owe' Hakeem Olajuwon anything." He was been paid in full, both with $$$$, and with the love of the fans (remember that final home game?). A symbolic signing (10-day or 'personal services' contract) would be a nice gesture, but it is by no means an obligation. I loved the Dream, and his role in Houston Rockets history, but the shell of Hakeem Olajuwon playing out his days in Toronto is little more than a historical footnote.
If Patrick had won two championships, they would have done anything for him. New York is the only city where you can be an a$$hole and still be loved. Fact is Comparing Olajuwon to Patrick is a disgrace. Hakeem is in a different class. I personally rate Hakeem as the greatest center who ever played the game. He leads all center in steals and ranks in the top 10 of all players He is the all-time shot blocking leader He is top 20 rebounds and Steals. And he is only 6'11" if even that. The guy didn't just overpower opponents, he out finessed them with that wickedly beautiful turnaround jumper after just bufuddling his opponent. Double, Triple teams, and still he would score. He is the only center to ever school Shaq...or have you forgotten 1995? By the way, Shaq's numbers were better then compared to now. At his prime, in 1995...I would not select another Center to be on my team over him. That had to be the most dominating display of basketball in every statistical category I've ever seen. Defensively, rebounding, steals, points, blocks. When did Ewing ever do that? In New York, they appreciate what a winner does. Bring home the bacon, and life will be good. New York stuck with Knoblauch as long as they could despite his mental problems. Same with Strawberry and Tino Martinez. When David Wells was traded for Roger Clemens....Yankee Fans BOOOOED. Let me ask you this..which would you pick...not giving a broken down center 16 million a year but never having those championships....or having the championships and dealing with a broken down center? The choice is obvious to me.
It was too strong of a statement to say "no one" cared about Nolan Ryan, but there was still a general ambivalance about it. You guys don't understand, in other cities, it would have been the headline everyday. Way before he even left for sure. People put up a fuss, but in other towns, fans would have gone ape-**** when an owner tries to low-ball a still performing legend like that. It shouldn't have only have been impossible, it should have been economically unfeasible. If Ryan was drawing huge crowds everytime he pitched, they would have been forced to keep him. But as I recall the Astrodome was always half empty when when if it was Ryan. Houston is a fair-weather city. I have no idea why. There's no excuse. Maybe because it's a relatively new city with little history. There just isn't a tradition of going to games as an evening out for fun...not just to see a winner. A lot of cities have had professional teams for 75 or more years. Houston didn't have professional sports until really the 60's. And they never had a winner. Hopefully that will all change. I'll never root for the Texans, because I'm not a Houston fan. But I am a Rocket Fan so long as Rudy is coaching. As for how old I am...that's really irrelvant. What is relevant is that I am a fan of the Rockets and Astros...and use to be of the Oilers.
There is so much more to the equation. If this were baseball, sure, throw as much money at him as you like. But this isn't baseball, and salary cap slots and limitations must be considered, not only for the current year but 3-5 years down the road. Dealing with a broken down center is easy...dealing with a salary cap handcuff for 4 years is not.
Tell that to a fellow named Joe Willie Namath. The Rockets and their fans stuck with Olajuwon through thick and thin. Even with the distasteful bickering mid-season, it would've been a great end to a great career if he'd retired after his final home game at the Compaq Center. Olajuwon chose to continue trying to play. Olajuwon chose to leave Houston. Once he had left, no obligations remained.
There are a lot of people who moved here from somewhere else and still follow the old team. They root for Houston only when they do well.
