ZRB, you are almost always sensible these days. Back when you were borderline trolling, back in my lurking days, you used to drive me insane. Now you're one of my favorite posters. But you could not be more blind about this Hakeem thing. If someone saves your life, you owe them an eternal debt. If they follow up that great act by killing your dog and ****ing your wife, it's still okay to be mad at them. Even though they saved your life. Two things are true: Number one: Hakeem was the greatest Rocket ever, bar none. In fact, he was the greatest Houston athlete ever. Nothing can ever take that away. Nothing can ever take his contribution to the city or the sport away. Nothing ever will. Number two: It is still possible to tarnish his legacy and go out like a b****. And that's what he did. Now he's doing it again in Toronto. Even if someone is entirely inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt everywhere it's possible to do so, it is impossible to deny his bad, bad behavior. He dumped us. We did not dump him. He dumped us and, nearly a year later, he was still whining about how badly he was treated here. He was not. He was deluded as to his power to contribute. I would have kept Hakeem here for as long as he wanted to stay, even at an outrageous contract, even riding the bench or stuck on the IR. But his public statements, his demanding to be the focus of the offense long after he was capable of contributing substantially, and his presence in the lockerroom made that impossible. Is your love for Hakeem so great that you'd give up Steve's development? Cat's? Eddie's? If so, for how many years? Were the championships so valuable that we should have put the franchise on hold until Hakeem said it was okay to move on? If you believe they were, then I defer to you as the greater Hakeem fan. But if you believe that, you'd better defer to the rest of us as the greater Rockets fans. Houston fans loved Hakeem and they still love him. They respected him and they still respect him, no matter how hard he worked to destroy that respect. He was selfish, he was whiny, he was a cancer. And he was the greatest Rocket ever. Call me a fairweather fan to my face. I dare you.
Hakeem had little impact last year in the center weak Eastern Division. I think Cato will be a superior back up center this year. As the year goes by and Yao Ming plays more minutes (stays out of foul trouble) Cato will be playing when the best centers are on the bench and I think he will be a shot blocking force, with occaisional time off for good behaivor.
So choosing to exercise your right as a free agent after putting a city on the professional sports map and giving them 20 years of great memories equates to "killing your dog and ****ing your wife"? Really? You say that in one breath then continue to focus on the negative, i.e. the "greatest Houston athlete ever" is also a "b****". Go figure. So leaving for another team means you "dumped" your former team? Even when the former team really had no intention of signing you in the first place? Interesting. Can you show that in his last season how Hakeem was "deluded in his power to contribute?" I seem to remember the Rockets being 20-23, then Hakeem getting some playing time, and the Rockets finishing 45-37. I don't remember any problems with Hakeem deferring to Francis and Mobley during that time. Maybe you recall it differently? Okay, you're going to have to refresh my memory on Hakeem demanding to be the focus of the offense. I must have missed that. Also let me know what you mean by his "presence in the lockerroom", possibly with quotes from other players/coaches, if you've got them. As for giving up someone's development, I'd REALLY like to hear you back up that one. How were Francis and Mobley's developments ever compromised while Hakeem was here? I can't speak for ZRB, but I believe that Hakeem had earned the right MANY times over to decide for himself how he wanted to end his career. He also earned the right to speak his mind, and not be bashed for it by fairweather fans..."fans" that would turn around and kill your dog and **** your wife by trashing you after you GAVE them the only championships they'd ever known. Yawn. w e''re a ll so ooo sc a re dd offf yooo u bbbatmann.. . ii ccaa n'tt efv e n tyyp e.. ..
Freak, my basic point was that doing a great thing doesn't automatically exonerate you from all future bad behavior. I need to get back to work, but I'll respond to your other points later if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
You hate Houston sports fans so much and then take the additional step of logging into a Houston sports BBS to tell us again and again. Get a life...loser.
I still don't get this "Olajuwon dumped Houston" thing...EVEN if you assume that it was entirely his decision, AND if you assume that he is completely wrong about not really being wanted, AND if you assume that he wasn't underappreciated (some of which I can assume) AND if you assume that it's an athlete's obligation to stay with one team, then it follows that this is a short list of players that the Rockets have "dumped"... * Robert Horry * Sam Cassell * Otis Thorpe * Vernon Maxwell All the above played significant roles in our winning championships, but were "dumped" when the franchise thought it was in it's own best interests...Does that make us an organization of "b****es"? Or is acting in what you see as your own best interest a right exclusive to the organization, and when the player does the same thing he is money-grubbing, disloyal, and the equivalent of a dog-killer and wife-%^*^*$er? Or is it that he expressed his dissapointment with the Rockets, in a very mild manner, a few months later? I'm not assuming that his perspective was accurate, because I wasn't privy to the negotiations, but even if you assume that he was completely wrong, I still don't understand how any of this makes him this villain everyone seems to be talking about. Does he not have the right to express his opinions, when asked, about a subject he obviously feels very strongly, and one I might add about which he has more information and cue for passion than anyone of us? Yeah, it's dissapointing when a symbol of a city leaves for another, and it hurts, but there are two ways to handle it..with class, or like a jilted and petty lover. One shows your worthy of loyalty in the first place, the other makes leaving easier to defend...
Okay, here we go. How was Hakeem a cancer? As the Freak said, the Rockets were under .500 until Hakeem's message got through. His playing time increased, he produced, and the Rockets finished the season 25-14. Some would say that if Hakeem had played well to start that season, he would have earned more minutes. That's bull****. You don't force 18 year veterans and former champions to earn playing time. You start out by giving them as many minutes as they want, and then cutting down to maximize their effectiveness. That's why the Rockets were a good team in the second half of 2000-01. Rudy played Hakeem until he was ready to sit on the bench, and he rewarded the Rockets by putting up great numbers. Some of Rudy's decisions were downright moronic in the first half of 2000-01. Hakeem could score 20-10 in the first three quarters, and Rudy would bench him in the all-important fourth, in favor of a fearsome Bullard-Thomas-Mobley-Francis-Norris lineup. Okay, I can understand Rudy wanting to develop younger players. But he wasn't doing that. He had Bullard in the lineup! How would you feel if you had put a city on the sports map, only to be benched in favor of an aging three-point specialist? Hakeem had a right to complain. And you call him money-grubbing? The guy was underpaid for almost his entire career. The Rockets totally lowballed him with a four-million dollar offer, when they could have afforded much more. What? They wanted to save cap space? Then why, after trading Hakeem, did they trade for seven-million-a-year Glen Rice? The truth is, the Rockets could have easily afforded Hakeem, but they let him go. And Hakeem should have nothing but nice words for the Rockets after this? (by the way, Hakeem and Rudy eventually spoke again, and seemed to work things out, but I guess all the Hakeem-haters like to forget this to support their arguments) Anyway Batman, I wasn't referring to you as a band-wagoner. You're not nearly as vicious regarding Hakeem as other members of this board. There are a lot of people here who take pleasure out of Hakeem's failures with Toronto, and wished him nothing but bad luck from the beginning. I can understand some of you being a little upset with the way Hakeem's Rocket career ended, but it seems like a lot of you still hold big grudges. I can't understand those that repeatedly refer to him as a "whiney b****". It's pathetic. Get over it people. He left the Rockets. Enjoy the great memories! Think of 94 and 95, not the summer of 2001. And it is true that Houston is a bandwagoning city. Look at how quickly the Rockets went from leading the league in sellouts, to dwelling in the cellar of attendance figures. Let me get some things straight. I am not blinded by Hakeem-loyalty. I wouldn't want Hakeem starting if he were still here. That spot belongs to Yao, a true prospect with a bright future. Cato is not Yao, and he should NEVER have started over Hakeem. I am a Rockets fan first. I rooted for the Rockets against Toronto, not for the Raptors. Rockets games still pull at my heart and drive me crazy at times, Raptors games don't. I don't totally blame the Rockets or Rudy for what happened with Hakeem. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, and that both parties were to blame in some way. I just want some of you to show Hakeem a little respect. This site probably wouldn't exist if not for the Dream, and the Rockets would probably be playing in New Orleans.
cato would start for the knicks. in fact the knicks would love cato starting for them. sure he's unmotivated and overpaid, but despite that he's an athletic 7-footer. when he trys, and he sometimes did last year, he can be an asset.
Right, and how many championships did Ewing Bring home? How many did Olajuwon bring to Houston? Maybe one is more deserving then the other.
The Knicks suck. They'll suck for 10 more years. I'm surprised Houston even wanted Glen Rice. That guy is washed up.
You guys should be throwing Rose Petals on the floor Hakeem walks on. That's all he wanted. The respect and love. He would have retired last year, but when his home town told him he was washed up, it rightly angered him. He single handedly excised the demon, the chip-on-the-shoulder, the "chock" label, the black cloud that has followed Houston for so many year...it's entire sports history...from Phi Slamma Jamma to the Oilers, to the Astros. If Olajuwon wanted to play ten more years, the fans...at least the fans should say absolutely. WHERE IS THE LOVE? Hakeem deserved to play in a more loyal city. You think NYC isn't Loyal, they let Strawberry come back how many times? Or look at the Lakers. They let Magic come back and back and coach and make an ass out of himself as many times as he wanted to. Because they knew, you don't ever cross a made-man...a man who made your team part of the history books. Houston didn't care with Nolan Ryan left, or when Olajuwon left. READ: FAIR-WEATHERED CITY. Hey, it's not all of you, just the general vibe of the city.
New Yorker = Wallace Matthews???? Yeah...that and $17M a year. Talk about giving yourself a HUGE salary cap problem. The guy couldn't play anymore. I think he showed that in Toronto. So if you pay a guy who won't be on the floor that much money, where do you get the guys who WILL be on the floor? Paying him a fat salary would have put this team light years behind where they are. That's scary. Were you here when that happened? I was. The fans of the team were LIVID when Satan McMullen let Nolan walk away. Just because the then owner let Ryan go doesn't make the fans disloyal. That's absurd. I KNOW NYC isn't loyal. How many times do they boo their own teams? Have you ever been to Houston? Anywhere within 200 miles of Houston? What's Houston's area code? The reason I ask is that you're starting to sound like you don't know what you're talking about.
Did I say any player would? Did you see the rolling eyes icon? Are you sure you know what you are talking about?
NewYorker, You are 100% right. I noticed this when I was in Japan and Maryland following the Oilers. After Warren Moon left, the Astrodome had 25,000 fans in it. They started losing and no one cared. It was like the Buffalo Bills loss (choke) made them scared to support their team. Houston never wants to associate themselves with a team that loses ... I am no way a blind-fan (those that read my posts should know that). I say, be loyal, but be vocal. Houston fans are neither (watch a Rocket game: yawn...yeah.....go team...yawn....). No enthusiasm. Worst in the league in attendance. Houstonians brag about being the 4th largest city in the nation, but they don't show it. You'd swear that they were a small market like the New Orleans or Memphis. When I was living in Alaska (back in 1996), I would call back home to Houston and talk to friends and family and no one cared about the Oilers; because they were losing. I couldn't believe it. I wasn't even in Houston and I would never miss a game if I could. Yet, "fans" living in Houston wouldn't even watch them play. It was shameful. I talked to my friend (Shaun) a week ago (he lives in Houston/Alief), and I asked him about the Texans. He said that he saw some highlights from the news, but that was about it. He said that he's still pissed off about the Oilers and he really doesn't follow football anymore. I called him a bandwagon fan!!! He shows no loyalty. I told him that once the Texans start winning he's going to be the first person in line to buy tickets. You watch it will happen...sigh...it makes me sick. Fair-weather, yes. You are right. P.S. If Hakeem wants to come back to Houston, we should welcome him back and give him the KEY TO THE CITY! It was Hakeem that ended the curse on Houston.
Not because they were losing...it was because they were LEAVING. 1996 was their last year in Houston. Nobody wanted to go and see a lame duck team.
They left because they wanted a new crib. We wouldn't give them the BudDome, so he tried doing the same thing he did with Jacksonville when we caved in and gave him $90M of renovations to the Astrodome. We didn't blink that time...so he left. The story as I heard it from a friend who was working with City Council at the time was that Bud called the mayor at home one evening asking for a new stadium...and the mayor hung up on him. Whether that version of events is true or not I don't know. But the bottom line is that Houston didn't want to pay for a new stadium thinking Bud wouldn't leave...Bud wanted a new stadium thinking that we'd cave in again. It was a high stakes game of chicken. The city lost. It had nothing to do with attendance figures.
Someone close this thread....this topic has been dragggged out for so long!! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?=&threadid=35514 http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35519 http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37360 http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37856 I loved it when Hakeem started here as a Houston Rocket, then his anchoring of the 2 championships, and still admired him during his downfalls. But it was a stab in the heart when he left Houston. But I think it would be awesome if he could come here, sign a 10-day contract at the beginning or end of this season, and just retire as a Houston Rocket. That would be the perfect ending to a great legend...
