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Brian Shaw: NBA General Managers & owners look down on the Triangle Offense

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by GreatOne1978, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. GreatOne1978

    GreatOne1978 Member

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles...23/brian-shaw-interview-quotes-and-commentary

     
  2. macho GRANDE

    macho GRANDE Elvis, was a hero to most but................

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    Hard to be discreet at work with the size 92 font. I'll read later.
     
  3. arjun

    arjun Member

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    :grin: haha i know wat u mean
     
  4. watashi315

    watashi315 Member

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    I think part of the reason why GM cringe at Phil Jackson or his "triangle defense" has a lot to do with his coaching philosophy. Like Popovich, Phil can sometimes come off as being arrogant. Unlike Pops, Phil is known for his "new age" zen-like mumbo jumbo as opposed to old fashioned discipline and teaching players the nuts and bolts of the game. This, I think, is what really hurts Phil's reputation. He's not a great player's coach like Tom Thibideau, Doc Rivers, or even Pops. His system seem to work when you have the superstars (Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Pippen) and a great supporting cast (Fisher, Fox, Kerr, Grant, Kukoc). Anything less and he's not going to get you anywhere.

    I think GM and owners tend to see Phil as a guy who always puts himself in the right place at the right time in addition to a big fat paycheck and get to make demands by banging the boss's daughter.
     
  5. Angkor Wat

    Angkor Wat Member

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    umm are not most championship teams built with a superstar and a great supporting cast :confused:? Look at Dirk with the Mavs and Hakeem with the Rockets. I don't care who's coaching or what system, when you lack things like a legit superstar and a great supporting cast, it will be difficult to go far.
     
  6. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    "The Curse of the Triangle" started with Jim Cleamons, I think. Cleamons got the head job in Dallas in 1994 or so after being a well-regarded assistant on the championship Bulls teams. He ran the triangle with the sucky/young Dallas team and it did not work well. I think Kurt Rambis was the latest victim of the curse.
     
  7. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    From my very shallow knowledge of the triangle, I would say a lot of the success depends on the on court decision making ability of the individual players. There are almost no set plays in the triangle, each step gives you many options, and it is up to the players to choose which step to do next according to the defense and understanding the abilities of their teamates. This is a lot easier said than done.

    When I look at the Minny Wolves triangle last year, I see a lot of hesitations by the players on the court. When a player takes a bit too long to run a set, the triangle becomes ineffective and they abandon it for a pick and roll or something.

    The triangle is pretty genius in itself, because it uses spacing and movement to almost always guarantee a high percentage shot when executed. But it also demands the players to do a lot of thinking and understanding themselves, which is why I think a lot of coaches chooses not to run it.
     
  8. DieHard Rocket

    DieHard Rocket Contributing Member

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    They probably frown upon the triangle because it doesn't work unless you have Phil Jackson and Tex Winter actually running it, with the right mix of superstars and role players to execute it.

    It's obviously very complicated and Phil is a master at getting teams to buy into it, while Tex is great at teaching it.
     
  9. ferrari77

    ferrari77 Contributing Member

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    Really what I think the article shows(apart from lack of respect for the Triangle and Phil's assistants) is the chasm between Mitch and Jim Buss. It may just be a little gulf right now but I just see it growing until both can't work with each other anymore and obviously Mitch will be the one to go seeing as Jim is the boss' son.
     
  10. Scolandry

    Scolandry Member

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    Finally someone who speaks with some fcking knowledge! You think people are just going to win without a Superstar or something? I guess we should've won a ring last year, heck maybe even get a playoff spot.
     
  11. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    Other posters alluded to it, probably something to do with Phil's personality and the way he comes off to other teams. He's also inflexible with his system at times, though alot of veteran coaches tend to be. His assistants typically receive less credit than they deserve. Tex Winters, probably was the genius of that triangle offense, while the other assistant often focused on defense. Sort of like coordinators in football. While, Phil is the head of the team on the floor. Not saying this is the case with Brian Shaw, but alot of assistants typically flounder as head coaches for whatever reason, probably bad team usually or are thrown into a difficult situation (almost no win).

    Moreover, if a coach is inflexible with his system or is not using one to the benefit of the players, it's already not good situation to start with. It even happens with good to great teams who get new coaches (or sometimes new players). There are too many examples to name. An inexperience or inflexible coach may not utilize the talents of their player, appropriately, it happens alot with younger players. More or less, push players into a type of system that may not be using their skills to the best of their ability.

    On the other hand, I've seen some players who either marginal or average at best even turn into decent and sometimes all-star level players under other coaches, even if that player moves onto other teams. Look what happened to Bruce Bowen under Pat Riley and Greg Popovich, they both gave him a chance and he became one of the best defenders ever under both coaches, also pretty 3 point shooter. Look at the Rockets, look how much a better player Yao Ming became under Jeff Van Gundy, taking more control in the post on offense and defense. Look at Pat Riley, and difference in offensive styles between the Lakers, Knicks, and Heat. Which comes from that bolts and nuts mentality.
     
  12. sbyang

    sbyang Member

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    Michael Jordan owns a team. Jordan knows the triangle offense as good as anyone. Jordan's team is not running the triangle.
     
  13. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    Bam! That just happened.
     
  14. Dei

    Dei Member

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    Jordan's team is the Bobcats.
     
  15. prv1981

    prv1981 Contributing Member

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    He could have hired B. Shaw if he really wanted to have that system run.
     
  16. BMoney

    BMoney Contributing Member

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    That's a load of garbage. Look at what Jackson did in 1994 without Michael Jordan. Check out that roster sometime. Also, if you think he just rolled the ball out there then you have never watched those Bulls and Lakers teams. I don't care that he is arrogant- he has a right to be.
     
  17. Dreamin

    Dreamin Member

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    I can see Phil Jackson coaching the Heat if Spo doesnt deliver the goods this time around. The players will have a huge respect for him because of what he accomplished with Jordan/Pippen and Kobe/Shaq.
     
  18. jimmyv281

    jimmyv281 Member

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    Nice!
     
  19. dakeem1

    dakeem1 Member

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    That is correct, however the argument by Shaw has nothing to do with Championship teams. It has to do with vacant coaching jobs, which are NEVER on championship teams.

    If you are a GM, would you hire a desciple ofthe Triangle Offense knowing very well that your team is not built for it? At least a Popovich desciple will have coaching techniques that can work with different teams. Preaching hard defense is universal regardless of the type of team you have.
     

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