Patterson's a good defender, but so is JJ. I'm not familiar with Patterson's game. What does he do better than JJ?
I would go with berry, and I think that we would have to get rid of one of our big men and I'm thinking it's going to be Cato. Seattle already has their backcourt they just need some toughness and some kind of "presence" inside the paint.
Patterson makes more than double what JJ makes. And Patterson is not more talented than JJ. And since when has JJ had the rep of being a "good community" person? This year?
IMO, a deal for Barry will need a third party. They aren't going to want Mobley. They already have Allen and Murray. They don't want Cato. They already have James and Calvin Booth, two guys who have games similar to Cato. What Seattle needs is a legit four, which we don't have. I'm not sure if they are dumb enough to make a deal for Taylor given his contract although they did try to sign him the same year we did. I just think we are going to need another team involved to make a deal with Seattle work.
We're better off keeping Mobley in this case. Yes, Barry is a better overall player, but we desperately need Cuttino's scoring right now. It seems like he's the only consistent shooter/scorer on the team right now. Plus, his salary's very reasonable given what he brings every night. Any trade involving Brent Barry would definitely require us to take either Jerome James or Calvin Booth off Seattle's hands. These guys are grotesquely overpaid, and the Sonics desperately want to dump them. In exchange we'd probably give them Maurice Taylor and John Amaechi.
I would love Barry as a point forward. Then we could have Steve and Cat both playing the 2 at the same time! He can shoot better than any Rocket (except maybe Pike), and he's proven to have a good asst/TO ratio. I just don't know who the Sonics would want for him... I wouldn't trade Cat for him...Cato maybe? If I were the Sonics, I wouldn't make that trade.
Houston trades: PG Moochie Norris (2.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 14.0 minutes) PF Maurice Taylor (10.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.1 apg in 26.6 minutes) Houston receives: SG Brent Barry (11.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.7 apg in 32.4 minutes) C Calvin Booth (5.7 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.4 minutes) Change in team outlook: +3.7 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and +2.2 apg. Seattle trades: SG Brent Barry (11.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.7 apg in 32.4 minutes) C Calvin Booth (5.7 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.4 minutes) Seattle receives: PG Moochie Norris (2.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 24 games) PF Maurice Taylor (10.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.1 apg in 18 games) Change in team outlook: -3.7 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and -2.2 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Houston and Seattle being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Houston and Seattle had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Then turn around and do this deal: Houston trades: C Kelvin Cato (5.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 28.2 minutes) C John Amaechi (5.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 28.2 minutes) C Adrian Griffin (5.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 28.2 minutes) Houston receives: PG Charlie Ward (9.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 5.1 apg in 25.0 minutes) C Kurt Thomas (11.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 34.1 minutes) Change in team outlook: +14.6 ppg, +4.4 rpg, and +6.4 apg. New York trades: PG Charlie Ward (9.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 5.1 apg in 25.0 minutes) C Kurt Thomas (11.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 34.1 minutes) New York receives: C Kelvin Cato (5.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24 games) C John Amaechi (5.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24 games) C Adrian Griffin (5.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24 games) Change in team outlook: -14.6 ppg, -4.4 rpg, and -6.4 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Houston and New York being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Houston and New York had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Rockets lineup: PG: Francis, Ward, Barry SG: Mobley, Barry, Jimmy Jackson, Piatkowski SF: Barry, Jimmy Jackson, Piatkowski, Boki PF: Kurt Thomas, Alton Ford C: Yao Ming, Calvin Booth This team would be so much better than our current team. We would have one of the best backup point guards in the league in Charlie Ward who would be very nice as a complementary player to Francis because he is totally different - pass first, doesn't take many shots. Barry would be perfect as a backup for the 1, 2 and even 3 position - should get about 30 minutes a game or so. He would also help with our fast break problems. Jimmy Jackson's minutes would be reduced a bit, but I think what this guy should want now is win - no matter if he plays 40 minutes or 25. We could also get Mobley's minutes down a bit from 40 to 35 or so. At the PF position, Kurt Thomas is worse offensively than Mo Taylor, but a much better rebounder and defender. Ford or maybe Booth could get some of the backup minutes, but Thomas can easily play 35 minutes, and also, one could sometimes have a smaller lineup like Francis, Mobley, Barry, Piatkowski, Ming (plenty of options for Ming to pass the ball out to for a three). Booth should be ok for playing 10 minutes behind Ming, he is not great, but neither is Cato, and Booth is not a bad shot-blocker. Why would Seattle do it? They wanted Mo Taylor when we signed him and he would give them some offensive firepower from the 4 position. They could probably let Barry go because they now have Ridnour and Murray, who are not bad at all, and when Allen comes back, they would have a pretty solid 4-guard rotation with Allen, Daniels, Ridnour, Murray - no real need for Barry if they want to develop their younger guys instead. Also, they want to get rid of Booth's contract, as has been mentioned in this thread. Taylor has a similar contract, but he is much better. Why would New York do it? Cato could be a legit center in the east for them - Mutombo is not a long-term solution. They would gain a lot of size. They also really want to get rid of Ward and Kurt Thomas, as has been reported many times and Thomas has already stated that he wants to leave as well. Once New York gets a decent point guard, they don't have a bad team, with Houston as the SG, Van Horn as SF, McDyess at PF and Cato/Mutombo at C. LET'S DO IT .
The Rockets shouldn't make a trade just for the sake of trading. Why trade a scorer (CM) for another scorer? The Rockets need a legit power forward, preferably someone under the age of 30 (cause SF and YM are young guys, and you want your core in the same age range), and preferably someone with a non bloated contract. Raven
How about this guys: Calvin Booth, Brent Barry, Mike Sweetney to Houston Howard Eisley, Kurt Thomas to Seattle Kelvin Cato, Moochie Norris, Boki, Houston protected 1st round to NY I'm assuming Seattle would like to trade Booth over its other C's because the other 2 are in their final year, while Booth makes the most and has 2 or 3 more years. James/Potapenko/Kurt Thomas KT/Radomanovic/Evans Lewis/Radomanovic Allen/Murray Daniels/Ridnour/Eisley Ming/Booth MoT/Sweetney/Padgett JJ/Pike/AG Mobley/Pike/Barry Francis/Barry Mutombo/Cato McDyess/Weatherspoon/Lampe/Cato/Van Horn Van Horn/Shandon/Boki Houston/Shandon Ward/Williams/Moochie Thoguhts?
Mobley is younger and better than Barry and has a better contract, forget a trade with Cat involved unless we get another better player or 1st round pick (say if Radmonavic and Boki were also swapped). Of course with Seattle having Allen and Murray, I agree a 3rd team would need to be involved because Mobley does not address their weaknesses Sane and Gaters points are most important. Barry does not have much trade value. He is a a good player, and I'd like him for the Rockets, but he is a 32 year old in the final year of his contract. Given Seattle's players and prospects at the 1 & 2, I don't think they would want to pay enough to keep Barry past this year. The Rockets would be in a slight advantage in trading for Barry bevfore the trade deadline and then have his Bird rights instead of going after him through an MLE--but then maybe we would have to overpay for a 32 year old. Thus I would not offer too much just to get him now versus persuing him next year if he is the best PG like target for MLE-level money we see. I like the Cato for Barry + Booth/James type offers. Or maybe like Mooch, Nachbar and a #1 (20something pick) for Barry. Nothing more than that. Again Seattle probably has to get what they can for him I think by the trade deadline or they basically will lose him for nothing.
JVG and SF both know his limitations. It's not a "disappointment." It just a realization of what Francis is good at, and what he's not good at. Barry would free Francis into doing what Francis is good at (scoring) and what Barry is good at (3 pointers, passing, and some scoring). At the fact that Barry is a BIG guard (6'6") helps off-sets Francis at 6'2". One thing is clear. Barry MUST play DEFENSE. He can't just be a passive player. He has to be ACTIVE on both offense and defense. Barry strength is running the floor and FINDING the open man on the break, shooting the three when Francis drives and kicks or Yao passes out to the 3 pt line. And Barry is also good at passing off the P and R or off a drive to the basket. He has large hands and has good ball control in traffic. Barry reminds of a soild old school player like Doc Rivers or Aaron McKie. Soild, mature, and smart. Stats? A guy that gets near 50% FG, 80%FT, 40%3pt, 10ppg, 5apg, 2.0 TO per game. Yes, some guards do shoot 50% today. I amazing, isn't it?
Did anyone notice that Barry - who avgs about 30 minutes per game - sat out last night's game? I don't follow the team so it could simply be that he was sick. Or it could mean that they're preparing to deal him...
Yep. Wouldn't quite happen----I'd rather find a 3rd team, in the East, to take Steve---but Rashard, a hometown 3 with size who can actually shoot.... (sigh)
PG: Francis, Ward, Barry SG: Mobley, Barry, Jimmy Jackson, Piatkowski SF: Barry, Jimmy Jackson, Piatkowski, Boki PF: Kurt Thomas, Alton Ford C: Yao Ming, Calvin Booth Yao Ming 33/Cavlin Booth 13/John Amaechi 0 Kurt Thomas 36/Alton Ford 12 Brent Barry 30/Jim Jackson 18/Bostjan Nachbar 0 Cuttino Mobley 36/Eric Piatkowski 12 Steve Francis 36/Charlie Ward 12/Mike Wilks 0
Wow, my post made the front page!!! I am glad to see you guys talk about this stuff, instead of argue with eachother
No no please no patterson. His huge contract and troubles drag his value to negative (that's why Portland are looking to 'dump' him). BTW, he's not THAT good (not enough to be mentioned here). I mean he might play really good defense but that's not what we need now.
