Since Hezbollah is a legitimate party in Lebanon then Israel should hold Lebanon accountable for Hezbollah's actions. That's the difference between governments and terrorist groups. Hezbollah's relishing its unofficial status while committing acts of war upon Israel.
Back on topic... Looks like the Pakistanis, Brits, and the NSA coordinated very nicely on this. I didn't know just how extensively involved Pakistani intelligence was, but they apparently were very involved in uncovering this plot.
we need to torture these dudes who got caught. have them all in prison with nothing but gatorade bottles full of that explosive crap for them to drink, plus replace all their songs on their IPODs with Matisyahu and Michael W Smith.
What's amazing about this whole thing is how Republicans are clearly trying to use it to cast Dems as weak on Terror and strengthen their position. I wonder if the American people will buy it this time.
It now appears that 'Islamic Fascist' has replaced Evil-doers as the official term for the new enemies of freedom. I'll bet it was debate in the sit room what new term could be used to infer Syria and Iran without actually mentioning them by name. fascism Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si- Function: noun Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality -- J. W. Aldridge> http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fascist
Question for SJC and the likes: Why is some Shiite Shreik in Iraq, who has a private army, whose group has carryied out attacks on civilians for political gain, is not decleared terrorists by the US, and is in stead an US ally?
The Pakistani PR machine has been working overtime since yesterday to try give the impression that it somehow played a voluntary and pivotal role in stopping this plot. While Pakistan may have played some role in the investigation, i seriously doubt that it was in any way voluntary or, for that matter, vital. One thing is for sure - theres a lot of self-congratulatory media spin by the Pakistani PR machine(below). Notice that all of the articles from yesterday only cited Pakistani sources when describing the supposed vital part that Pakistanis played. Conspicuously absent from all of these articles were any positive comments from British and American officials on Pakistan’s role: the best I could find on a British response was this: also, if youre going to try to spin the story in your favor to make it appear that you played such a big and important role, at least get the facts straight and try not to make any obvious embellishments: ^That’s what Pakistani officials are saying – that the plot was supposedly unearthed a “several weeks” ago. Notice the comments from an American intelligence official below. If the comments below weren’t from another article and weren’t made in another continent, you would think this US intelligence official was responding directly to the Pakistani intelligence officer in the quote above: This from another article detailing the investigation of the plot: The plot was unearthed in late 2005, so the arrest of someone several weeks ago cannot be pivotal in "unearthing the plot" as the spin doctors in the Pakistani government would like to claim. The Pakistani official might want to change his story to a more believable "several months ago". All of this self congratulatory media spin is great, but it’s a rather piss-poor attemt at diverting attention from the fact that most of the people involved in the plot are Pakistani with deep roots in Pakistan; that they received funding from Pakistan; and that some may have attended terrorist camps there. Terrorist camps which the Pakistani government has claimed to have shutdown, run by terrorist outfits that the Pakistani government has supposedly banned, but which obviously still exist. I’m sure in the coming days, Mullah Musharraf’s regime will use this as an example to show how important Pakistan is in the war on terror (probably in attempt to extract more money and possibly arms from the US). But, what it wont be able to do is to spin the story enough to keep people from asking why, in spite of all of Pakistan’s supposed efforts, the imprints of every major act of international Islamist terrorism in the world invariably passes through Pakistan, from 9/11 -- where virtually all the participants had trained, resided or met in, coordinated with, and received funding from -- to major acts of terrorism across South Asia and Southeast Asia, as well as major networks of terror that have been discovered in Europe. It wont be able to explain why jihadis from all over the world continue to go to Pakistan for training, funding and operational assistance despite assurances from the government that it was shutting down all the terrorist infrastructure in the country. As far as there being any kind of voluntary cooperation from Pakistan in exposing this plot, based on whats happened in the past, a more likely scenario would be that British and American intelligence uncovered evidence that linked the culprits directly to Pakistan, to members of the terrorist outfits that it supports, or possibly even to members of the ISI. Armed with this evidence, American and British officials probably then coerced the Pakistani government to cooperate, or face being bombed into oblivion. Thats what happened in 2001, when the US govt forced Pakistan to drop its support for the Taliban. And that’s what has happened every time the US has needed to arrest key members of Al Queda living in Pakistan, and every time the US has had to carry out key operations against Al Queda/Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Apparently, media reports are already coming out that state that the Pakistani government may have been coerced. If the Pakistani help really was voluntary, then why is Alberto Gonzalez refusing to comment? Wouldnt he be more forthcoming as he is when discussing US and British cooperation? I guess we’ll see in the coming days how cooperative Pakistanis really were.
OK I apologize --- TINFOIL HAT CONSPIRACY THEORY STUFF TO FOLLOW....... Why havent they found the bombs that said terrorists were allegedly going to use to blow up the 10 planes? It seems like if the mission was about to be greenlighted, they would have had the devices ready or at least the ingredients at hand. Maybe its easier to aquire bombs in the UK than I think it is, but this seems to be a pretty big hurdle to pulling off a terrorist attack.... I havent heard anybody in the news media mention it...... If they had found them, I'm pretty sure pics of the capture would be made available, if they havent found it, wouldnt it be big news that 10 bombs capable of bring down airliners were on the loose in London? Any thoughts??
Thank goodness this plot was foiled. Sadly as with some of the other terrorist bombings, it may turn out that the needless hatred generated by our failed Iraqi War spurred these guys to do this. It is also sad that maybe at least 10 times as many resources are put into the Iraqi fiasco as on the actual efforts to prevent this type of terrorism. Hopefully we will get a little more intelligent in trying to prevent terrorism, rather than generating more adherents by volunary aggressive wars.
This is how the 'terror war' should mostly be conducted, through intelligence sharing and law enforcement.
Boy, this thread fell off the end didn't it... perhaps with good reason... So, a "disagreement" over the timing of the arrests... the main source of info/ringleader confessing under presumed torture in Pakistan, no tickets, some without even passports... Here's Sully... This could still turn out to be something, but it's looking increasingly like another Florida.
