BREAKING NEWS: Biggio and Astros agree to 1 year new contract.

Keep trying. The law of averages says you're bound to be right one of these days.

 

no i didn't, you don't know what you're talking about. As a matter of fact, after the criticizing the Pettitte signig, I wrote that getting both of them for 14 mill a year wasn't that bad. I never criticized the first or second Clemens signing.

 

lol... BRILLIANT!

 

Posted by pgabriel on 1/12/04
First of all, Clemens in 04 is no Randy Johnson in 98. He's not even Randy Johnson in 04. If you guys think he is going to come here and have an ERA of under 2.5 then you are in for a big dissappointment.

 

yes I said those things, but I didn't say they shouldn't sign Clemens. Clemens was coming off some very average years. I was wrong about how he would perform, but I didn't say the Astros shouldn't have signed him. No one could have predicted he would have the seasons he had, and I admitted I was wrong about Pettitte.


Edit:Clemens ERA was over 2.5 in 04 so even though you underlined your point, you still didn't prove anything.

 

so who predicted Clemens would have an ERA under 2.0.

 

the point is you didn't think clemens would make much of a difference...which is exactly what you said. that we were all getting too excited about a pitcher that was too old. qualify it...back away from it...either way. time will tell if your opinions about biggio are on par with your opinions of clemens.

but if you're saying burke over biggio...given everything we got out of biggio this season...then i think you're just wrong.

 

By this point, I think we all know PG has no freaking clue what he is talking about when it comes to baseball... so why even argue with him.

 

This is a great thing...More PR, but still great...he has done a tremendous job and he can still ball...$4MM/year is a bit high for a 40 yr. old, but still a good move...

 

A lot of piling on Pgabriel here.

I love Biggio and think he should be starting at 2nd this year and next year but Pgabriel isn't completely off base here (pardon the pun.)

Simply put Bidge is going to be 40 next season and Burke is going to be 26. What Bidge has done this season was great and desperately needed but honestly how much longer is he going to keep up the rigors of being an everday 2nd baseman and either leadoff or 2 spot hitter? At the sametime Burke is going to start looking for more playing time to get better and if his numbers start coming up but he doesn't get playing time he's not going to want to stay a Stro. A couple of years from now we could be in the situation of Bidge at the end of his career with noone to take his place as Burke either forces a trade or is gone through free agency.

To paraphrase other posters, you dance with the one who brought you and that's Bidge right now but its never too late to start thinking about the future who the Stros believe is Burke.

 

Understandably so.

So, do you think a "preemptive" move of pulling your hall of fame 2B is a good move? Start the guy who *might* become a good producer with playing time, just in case the old guy wears down and can't product any more? I'm not in favor of such a move. How about let's allow the Astros to move Biggio out of the way when he finally *does* seriously decline? Or maybe (though it's rare) he'll step back himself. I don't think Burke's development is being hurt, either. He had 440 AB's this year and did nothing with them.

 

You were the one that ruled it out before he even put on an Astros uniform.

Look... we've all been wrong here before, and why not... we're just a bunch of fans who have an above average capacity to analyze sports. That's all.

Its just that you come off with such defiance in your stances on subjects from T-Mac/Francis to Pettite/Clemens and now Biggio/Burke... and then when the outcome doesn't go your way, you try to skew it and wage a one-on-one war with fellow members about how you were "misunderstood."

The lack of humility and humbleness on your part is the most irritating thing.... and its probably why everybody is so riled up about your opinions. Just take it as it is... you were wrong (severely) about Pettite, you were totally off on your take of Clemens (of course, as you said, nobody could have predicted Cy Youngs and sub 2 ERAs... but not many people said it was "impossible" either... you did), and there is a good chance you can be wrong about Biggio.

 

To be fair to Burke, since the all-star break, he's had a higher avg, obp, and ops than Biggio. He's shown substantial improvement in the second half of the season.

 

No one is saying Burke doesn't have talent and won't be a great player, but he is far from the talent level it would take to surpass a future Hall of Famer and easily the best player in Franchise History. There is something to be said for Biggios success the past two seasons, and he has more then earned his right to play full time until the 2007 season, when I see him platooning until he gets his 3000th hit. I want that man to stay an Astro and get his 3000th hit, he deserves it, the Astros deserve it and the fans deserve it... as long as he is producing he will play, because there would be a huge backlash from the casual fan base if they pulled him and he went elsewhere for playing time.

 

Absolutely.

Not so sure, certainly not easily. Mr. Bagwell was pretty amazing in his prime: baserunning smarts like no other, good speed, sick glove, high average, tons of walks, power; everything but the arm. It has truly been a treat watching these two for the past decade+. Something special and legendary, and you'll be telling your grandkids about it one day, just like Northeasterners talk to theirs about Mantle, Gehrig, Berra, etc. today.

(disclaimer: of course I'm aware that our pair falls a little short of the others mentioned)

 

lack of humility on my part, i'm the one who got piled on at first for just posting what biggio did in the second half of the season. i admitted I was wrong about Pettitte.

dude I see you not back down from arguments about Drayton, Biggio, and other things in this forum on a daily basis so for you to say that my lack of humility is irritating is hypocritical at best and ludicruous at worst.

edit: I mean Pettitte didn't even play in 04 and I never played that card all that season.

 

You had to know that was coming. And, if you knew it was coming, why did you bother? As the adage goes, "choose your battles wisely."

 

Don't argue anything with pgabriel. He knows how to shock the monkey.

 

See I compared him to the NL for a reason... it better supports the argument
But either way, Biggio is still a top producer at his position.

And I HATE the "preemptive replacement" argument. Who the hell cares how old the player is, if he's still one of the best at his position (and it's already been proven here that Bidge still is), then he should be playing, period. People need to stop worrying about stunting Burkes development, because he got plenty of opportunities this season and wasn't near as effective as Taveras, he's essentially learning the intricacies of the position from a hall of famer and one of the best to ever play 2nd base, because baseball is a team sport and you do what's best for the team to win NOW (and that is playing Biggio) and if he has such a fragile psyche that he can't handle playing 2nd fiddle to a hall of famer for another year or two I don't think he's cut out for the Bigs anyways.

 

How many hits does Biggio have? Does he have a shot at 3000, next year, or will it take 2 years?

Either way, I want to see it in an ASTROS uniform....and if Biggio is hurting our team so much, how did we make it to the playoffs?

I have been critical of Biggio and think Burke is going to be good, but Biggio is still VERY productive and has been a loyal player, and a good guy to root for.

I still say Burke can play SS, maybe not as good as Everett but at least he would bring a bat to the lineup.

DD