My fault. But, really, what is there to debate about Nichols? " I say he didn't do it! Oklahomans are animals who only want to drive Nebraskans into the Sea! Jesus loves pot!" I mean, aside from a debate on the death penatly, or the plusses and minusses of cow tipping, I don't see the important debate I sidetracked. Anyways, that's secondary. Andy, sorry if I sidetracked your thread. Just because I don't see the debate doesn't mean there wasn't one. ( Andy-wasn't saying you shouldn;t have posted it; it's news...or shouldn't have posted it here; subject requires it. Just was saying that by itself I don;t see the controversial nature.)
You are right.....there is really not much to talk about on this issue ....and that is why I am enjoying this thread.
So, when we invaded and took out the Taliban, did we or did we not bomb the **** out of Afghanistan? Then, we promised to rebuild the country and there was even talk about a democratic government being set up, but then Bush cut and ran so that he could start an unjustified, preemptive war instead of making Afghanistan into the "model for peace" in the Middle East. Seriously, we could have created a TON of goodwill had we simply honored our commitment to the Afghans and kept boots on the ground THERE to find OBL and to maintain order. When last I heard, the Taliban was back in control of significant portions of Afghanistan, OBL continues to evade everyone, and polls even show that there are more positive sentiments for OBL than for America. I do acknowledge that there are some efforts being made in Afghanistan, but I am pi$$ed that we did not finish one job before taking on another. We had an opportunity to finish up with Afghanistan, find and punish OBL, and get the UN behind us before confronting Saddam. We didn't do it and now things will get much worse before they get better.
Are you insane? We supplied the muhjadeen with weapons and CIA trainers during the resistance in Afghanistan. Many of the clans signed on because Reagan made promises through the CIA envoys (one of whom was the gentleman I saw on 60 Minutes) that the US would provide billions in aid to rebuild after the occupation was over. Reagan made the promise, Congress (controlled by the Democrats at the time IIRC) debated and voted down the reconstruction bill and we reneged on our promise. Now, GWB made them a promise much like Reagan did and then cut and ran when his agenda moved on. It is really no wonder that nobody trusts us in that part of the world, with our record over there.
I didn't really expect a debate about the verdict, but thought one might develop over the death penalty. NP on the sidetrack.
I don't see any important debate that you've engendered, either. As for Nichols, it sure seems like a waste of resources to try a guy who's already serving a life sentence.
News flash...Pat Tillman died, with his boots firmly on the ground, in Afghanistan. We did NOT just up and leave. Some of our elite forces are there looking for remnants of the Taliban and OBL supporters.
We did not leave (although lots of troops were pulled out and sent to Iraq) , but our approach there has left much to be desired, militarily and politically -- it's the same problem that happened in Iraq, politically, militarily & economically, we tried to do it on the cheap -- e.g. let the afghans try to take OBL out of Tora Bora -- and didn't get the job done. There was an internal pentagon report that was highly critical of this,broken by Hersh and its author in a New Yorker story from April, a special forces general, that was santized, and ultimately suppressed, IIRC Our approach to nationbuilding there has been lousy as well. Essentialy it is now a fractionalized patchwork of opium growing warlordships with the Taliban in virtual control of large parts of the eastern half of the country. President Karzai has little authority outside the capital and can't even travel safely. It's not exactly a rousing success story.
A lot, actually. There's quite a bit of concern from ballistics experts that the power of the bomb in the Ryder truck could not possibly have done the damage we are all familiar with. Just to start.
WE have a tiny fraction of the troops we had there during the invasion and nowhere near enough to provide security so that a legitimate government can develop. In addition, we have taken away virtually all of the rebuilding funds and spent those funds in Iraq. I never said we took every single troop out of Afghanistan, but despite the presence of a miniscule number of troops, we DID just up and leave...again.
This is what you posted... I pointed out that we DID have boots on the ground. Your words, not mine. I call you on it, and now you backtrack.
I found it sad when they executed Timothy McVeigh. I didn't find it sad that he was being executed, but rather that it seemed it was one step shy of being put on PPV as every news agency seemed to have up to the second details before, during, and after the execution. They made it the headlines. I found it sad that they made a spectacle of it.
