well you're stupid for not saying "you're" seriously, it was a silly point, you can only abuse something you have. abuse of power is an issue. you say you won't politicians to spend their time on real issues, but the president you support is the one spending his time on this so I don't understand your point.
ok. you cant abuse something you have, as you said. well the president has the power of pardon by your reasoning he didnt abuse anything. by the way, you are the one that mentioned abusing power. I was just trying to figure out what you meant by that given this situation. seems to be going in circles. the president i support? really. he didnt get my vote. (i can feel your brain on the verge of exploding). but im glad you helped point out my comment about political jockeying. as for the president spending his time on it...yes he did spend some. "you're pardoned". I was talking more about the tidal wave of complaints, interviews etc done afterwards.
God, you're dense. He said you can't abuse power you DON'T have, not power you do have. And you don't support Bush? Sure thing, sailor. Tell me another. You're one of the last diehards in the country that does and, like the rest of that tiny, mentally challenged group, no fact is too blatant or obvious to ignore and no hoop is too small to leap through. Time to roll your eyes again now, sugar.
Your argument is clear. Just don't expect certain monikers to acknowledge that. They never do. They might feign lack of comprehension, they might disappear and re-emerge under a new persona, but they don't give ground even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Whenever I check this forum, I always find myself wondering why many of us even bother replying to certain personas that are obviously intellectually dishonest and are likely being typed by some guy/gal giggling their butt off as they poke at the ant hill. The old school cats were/are just bombastic and over the top. No way one could take them seriously; but the new guy(s) feign impartiality by co-opting the language of non-partisanship while clearly protecting Bush/Cheney turf. Their tactics are straight up... Bush league. No matter what game they play, it really ain't worth the time.
What almost makes it worse from my view.....is that as a real independent(not aligned to any party and used to agree with some right principles and some left) it makes it harder for someone like me to try to post since no one will believe someone can be a true middle-of-the-aisler becuase of the dishonest tactics used by posters such as DonkeyMajic. It takes more than a stated position that both sides are bad to be a valid middle stance. Both sides may be equally bad....but it DOESNT MAKE IT RIGHT when it happens....no matter what damn political party you attach yourself to. to discount the bad behavior on Bush's part like Donkey MAgic does just shows him as what he really is a republican that is ashamed to admit it.
cut donkey some slack. he has a point about not being an important issue, but what people who argue this, or argue that clinton did it fail to realize this hasn't happened in a vacum. lets remember how this crap started, this all goes back to iraq, about the lies told to start the war, the person who had enough balls to out the lie, and the subsequent ruining of his wife's reputation by a white house official.
to be clear My response was a buildup after watching DM dance around his true beliefs and claim the middleground for along period of time in here....which is not where he really comes form based on the posts I have seen. it is dishonest....or as I said..he is just ashamed to admit he is repub. as far as this issue...you are right, it isnt that important in the grand scheme of things, but it certainly shouldnt be overlooked either. Just another on the long tallysheet of shady operations by this era of american politics. I dont want even little things to be overlooked in the faint hope that one day we the voters will wake up and demand accountability from all our reps...but I realize that is just some silly pollyanish wish on my part.
The point is that all those very same people screaming about the rule of law during the Clinton investigation are now suddenly willing to drop all their protests when one of their own gets off. It wasn't meant as a shot at Clinton, but rather at the hypocracy of those in power at any given time.
Fixed that for you Jeff. But I have to laugh at this whole idea of "well Clinton did it" or "they all do it." Sorry But not all of them have... committed treason Lied us into an unnecessary war Suspended Habeas Corpus Spied on Americans Tortured people to death Killed in excess of half a million people
"I don’t believe my role is to replace the verdict of a jury with my own, unless there are new facts or evidence of which a jury was unaware, or evidence that the trial was somehow unfair." -- George W. Bush, in his autobiography, A Charge to Keep.
Or commuted a sentence in a way that inhibits an investigation and likely protects the President and Vice-President from legal and political jeopardy. Did Clinton commute or pardon Web Hubbell before he went to jail? Did Nixon or Ford commute or pardon Mitchell, Colson, Haldeman or Ehrlichman before they went to jail? Did George H. W. Bush commute or pardon Weinberger, Abrams, and McFarlane? What? OK... then nobody does it unless you mean only Presidents named Bush... if that's your point of reference, then, yes, everybody does it.
in the 'dacks, with a nice chianti, and intermittent wifi. i've read very little about this, except the obvious headline, and none of this thread, but the result seems a kind of justice, if there can ever be such a thing in a case that should never have been brought, for a crime that was never committed. but libby apparently did lie to fitz, needlessly, and stupidly, but there it is. sandy berger still got off with less punishment, for a drastically more serious offense. ...off to the cellar now, you're unlikely to hear from me again until next week, assuming i've sobered up by then. EDIT: just saw that Bubbles died. damn.
you know, the funny thing is that the only reason Bush is hammered so hard on all of this stuff is because he's too incompetent to keep it under wraps. GG cronyism with r****ds who have no idea how to do their job right.
This is from FPM, not dailykos, so some on the left may not feel the warmth, and I don't post anything just because it leans right, but the article brings up a pretty good point to counter many of those that lean left... Free At Last By Ben Johnson FrontPageMagazine.com | July 3, 2007 I MISSED CHRIS MATTHEWS’ COMMENTS ON THE SCOOTER LIBBY PARDON, but I’m told it sounded as if half his face were paralyzed. He bellows for much of the Left, which wants to see a lynching, but justice – or something approaching it – has been done in the case of I. Lewis Libby. I was a bit premature earlier: our long national nightmare is now finally over. The president struck a perfect balance between mercy and justice with his commutation of sentence. It is not a pardon – a wise decision. Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald knew Libby had not been the source of the Plame Leak, and he knew this leak violated no federal laws. He pursued the case anyway, aiming for the vice president but apparently entrapping Libby. The jury pleaded confusion and frustration in deliberations. Without personally sitting on the jury, it would be nearly impossible to determine actual guilt or innocence, but I’ll defer to its decision. As I wrote after his conviction, “If Scooter Libby deliberately obfuscated a federal investigation – even one that should not have been pursued – his verdict would be well deserved.” The president’s grant of clemency keeps Libby from beginning a 30-month jail term immediately but does not remove two years probation time nor a quarter-of-a-million dollar fine. And in Bush’s words, “The reputation he gained through his years of public service and professional work in the legal community is forever damaged. His wife and young children have also suffered immensely.” Not immensely enough for the Left. Upon hearing the news, Sen. Joe Biden called on “Americans to flood the White House with phone calls tomorrow expressing their outrage over this blatant disregard for the rule of law.” Cue: chirping crickets at the White House switchboard. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi escalated her rhetoric, asserting this clemency proves Bush “condones criminal conduct.” She then fibbed: “The president said he would hold accountable anyone involved in the Valerie Plame leak case. By his action today, the president shows his word is not to be believed.” What the president actually said was that he would take “appropriate action”; and “if somebody committed a crime, (he) will no longer work in my administration.” By her action yesterday, the Speaker shows her word is not to be believed (as if we needed more evidence). Former Ambassador and current liar Joe Wilson assailed President Bush as “an accessory to obstruction of justice.” [1] His comments show the alarming degree to which Scooter Libby came to embody the entire administration in leftists’ wild eyes. Majority Leader Harry Reid hailed the Libby conviction as “the one faint glimmer of accountability for White House efforts to manipulate intelligence and silence critics of the Iraq war. Now, even that small bit of justice has been undone.” Democratic presidential hopeless Chris Dodd doddered, “By commuting Scooter Libby's sentence, the president continues to abdicate responsibility for the actions of his administration.” Rep. Tom Lantos went further off-the-hook, hinting the president now lacked the moral authority to confront Vladimir Putin for killing his political adversaries and stifling freedom of speech. “This decision sends the wrong message about the rule of law in the United States, just as the president is meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. How can we hold the line against injustices in other countries when our own executive branch deliberately sets out to smear its critics, lies about it, and then wriggles away without having to pay the price in prison?” It also demonstrates the shamelessness of its proponents. Hillary Clinton stated the commutation “sends the clear signal that in this administration, cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice.” Former Clinton appointee Bill Richardson audaciously broadsided those “who obstructed justice and lied to grand juries.” Hillary made no mention of “cronyism” when her husband pardoned Marc Rich, Susan McDougal, and more than a dozen New York terrorists; and both Hillary and Richardson lobbied for Congress to acquit the president of obstructing justice and lying under oath during a court proceeding (more significant than lying to federal investigators). Leftists are now trying to portray themselves as tough-as-nails proponents of “law and order.” Where was the outrage when a Clinton-appointed judge ignored federal guidelines and sentenced Mafia lawyer-turned terrorism abettor Lynne Stewart to only 28 months in prison – for helping World Trade Center bomber Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman deliver fatwas to Egyptian Islamists insisting theocracy replace Hosni Mubarak’s government and that “all Jews be killed”? In his undeserved clemency, the judge citing Stewart’s “public service, not only to her clients, but to the nation.” This service includes representing Sammy “The Bull” Gravano and advocating political violence in his courtroom. Stewart was allowed to remain free during appeal and has yet to spend a single, well-deserved night in prison. What of Sandy Berger, a higher government official than Libby, who destroyed unique evidence related to al-Qaeda terrorism? They have no time to comment on such trifles; they still think Patrick Fitzgerald will soon indict Karl Rove and Dick “Chee-nee.” For the Left, clemency is only for Tookie Williams, Mumia Abu-Jamal, and Weather Underground terrorists. This was always a small potatoes case, an inkblot magnified by the million-power telescope of the Left’s self-delusion. They obsessed over it; I have written extensively about it myself. It had nothing to do with prewar “lies,” outing a covert agent, or even the president. Nonetheless, some honestly believe the nation will rise up in indignation against a partial amnesty of Libby’s Martha Stewart-like offenses. The left-wing base of the Democratic Party is afflicted with acute political hypochondria. To the Democratic Left, the Plame Leak is Watergate, the Iraq death toll is the Vietnam Wall, Guantanamo Bay is Auschwitz, President Bush is Satan, Rush Limbaugh is Joseph Goebbels, minute temperature fluctuations are harbingers of the Apocalypse, minnows and zebrafish are 10-pound bass – and their wives don’t back up all their biological self-measurements, either. Releasing Scooter Libby from an extraordinarily harsh sentence without fully removing the sting of the law brought his portion of this overblown soap opera to an equitable conclusion. Justice will be served fully in this case only when Valerie Plame is indicted for her potentailly perjurious testimony before Congress; Joe Wilson is publicly humiliated for lying about his CIA report on Niger’s yellowcake and smearing the president during a time of war; Congressional Democrats retract the lie than the Libby trial had anything to do with prewar intelligence; Patrick Fitzgerald personally foots the bill for his ego-boosting, prosecutorial fishing expedition; and the Hypochondriac Left heeds its own advice to “move on.”
