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Breaking 1-06-21: MAGA terrorist attack on Capitol

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by RESINator, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member

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    Too bad more Trump voters don't feel that way. If they did, then they wouldn't support a man like Trump. Hell, who knows what he really believes in other than being the almighty ruler of this country. He sure doesn't treat others with respect when they aren't with him, or dare to question his motives.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Well, I can't control what Trump voters feel ya know. But I can control what I feel. So I choose not to feel frustrated by why they support Trump and look past his terrible flaws, but instead try to understand it.
     
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Trust the process
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    or in some cases, they know the truth, but held their noses and voted for him anyway. I know a fair number of those folks
     
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  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Those are the ones I respect less.
     
  5. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member

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    Good luck understanding why anyone would support a man who tried to steal an election.
     
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  6. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    Is there any disagreement on the committee?
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Don't need luck, and I do understand why they support him.
     
  8. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    At some point though, isn’t there some personal accountability for the information they consume, facts they ignore, opinions they hold, morals they ignore?

    I get it - social media, Fox News is very powerful and influential. But on some level, people choose what they see, believe what they want to believe. Can’t all just be victims.

    in some ways, this is the corollary of the Peter Gbriel view that black people need to take personal responsibility and not blame others or the system.

    a terrible and weak analogy I know, and I totally disagree with Peter Gabriel, but there is some thread of truth to his view …. That there is an element of personal choice and responsibility. in his scenario, I think much much more blame is external and systemic.

    With trumpers …. I put a lot more blame on the individual. They get to make hundreds of choices that lead to the lunacy and support for trump and the lies.
     
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  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I don't hold Trumpsters to a higher standard than anyone else. The overwhelming majority of people on this planet, not just Americans or Trumpsters, have a skewed reality of what is actually going on. It's not just the right, but the left too - although I will say that those with more clarity seem to lean left of center, but are not that far left.

    People believe in lies because we are evolved to believe in lies. Religion exists because our society depends someone one believing in what we want to believe - because it's too hard to accept that are lives might actually not have meaning. And that's the crux of what drives people to believe in what they do, because the alternative is just too scary for them.

    We all know and care about someone who believe in things we know are not true. No they aren't victims, but they are not villains either.

    I think the whole "personal responsibility vs nanny-state" dichotomy is a false one. Just another layer of bs applied over things to skew reality. We live in a blame society, and we all want to blame someone else for our problems. Personal responsibility extends to wanting to deny history and blame the people who suffer as well. We want to package up the world to say that everything that good happens to me, I deserve and earned. Everything bad that happens to me is someone else's fault and everything good that happens to someone else is luck or because they cheated or had help, but bad things that happen to other people is their fault. It's this whole way humanity views their tribes. You can't talk about others taking personal responsibility until one actually talking about how they are responsible as well.
     
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  10. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    You raise some interesting points. I suppose it is a sliding scale in my mind. Everyone should be responsible for doing the best they can, to gain information, make sound decisions on what is true and what is a lie. People are born with varying abilities to undertake that, and people as they grow up improve or not. People also have dispositions on whether it is important to learn and discern.

    So I think people are responsible for at least trying to learn and discern, and I have little patience for those who do not appear to try or care. Maybe I’m judging them incorrectly, and they are making the attempt or have the mindset, but they have exercised that effort but I just don’t like where they landed. I don’t know.

    as it relates to the basic facts regarding election fraud and the insurrection, it’s not that hard to understand what happened. It doesn’t not require an advanced degree, enormous intellect or anything else like that … just a willingness to learn and discern. I personally feel like a lot of people just believe what they want to believe - facts don’t matter, they don’t bother to learn, consider other sources, understand bias, etc. Yes, media and social media outs stuff in front of them and there is a barrier to overcome. I’ve seen the documentary on AI and social media. But just at least try.
     
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  11. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member

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    I think the Fox hosts, politicians, or whoever else is making mockery of the hearings does so for one purpose. They don't want Trump voters to hear truth from people who spoke with Trump over and over about the election lies. They don't want them to hear how all his claims were simply false. They don't want people to hear truth from Republicans who refused to change the vote or deceive the people.

    I think for many they don't want to face the truth, or learn that Trump deceived them to stay in power. They don't want to hear how he planned and prepared to steal the vote. It's easier to believe Trump, as he still spreads his lies.
     
    #5691 deb4rockets, Jun 23, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
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  12. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    This stuff isn't complicated.

    Republican voters tend to be poorer, less educated, more religious and whiter. This is just pure data. Sharing of fake news, from data, tends to come from conservatives (Republicans) more than liberals. This isn't surprising - they're dumber, poorer (willing to believe anything that will make it seem like they have some power/way out) and already believe in fake **** (religion).

    No need to overcomplicate it.
     
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  13. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member

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    You have to be willing to hear the evidence and decide for yourself, instead of simply taking Trump's word, especially in something this important. This isn't a hearing on whether he lied at a rally. This is an investigation into a man who tried to overturn the vote and stay in power. This is something no President in history has done. Putting blinders on or covering your ears to facts is simply blind allegiance to a man, and not to Democracy.
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    They are only Republicans, they are Trump's appointees and inner circle. Hell, if the Rest of the GOP would carry themselves like those testifying they could reclaim the party.

    A lot of people keep talking about Cipollone not testifying. I'm wondering if he would be violating attoeney/client privilege. As much as I would like to hear all of the information he could share, I think it's dangerous to expect attorneys to violate their privileges.

    That being said, I'm not sure if there might be certain things to which he could testify that weren't part of the attorney/client relationship.
     
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  15. dumbartonbass

    dumbartonbass Contributing Member
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    Herein lies the problem. There isn't disagreement because there is no "other side" to lies and conspiracy.

    Liz Cheney is a representative who has likely voted in line with almost everything you want legislatively. Adam Kinzinger, too. But they are willing to call truth truth and lies lies which, in the eyes of the modern GOP, makes them "RINOs" along with every Republican witness the committee has called.
     
    #5695 dumbartonbass, Jun 23, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    There are members with hard-line conservative voting records on the committee. The Republicans could have had more members on the committee, but opted not to seat more members. The only members that were kept off were ones that were potential subjects of the investigations.
     
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  17. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    Was there any questioning/criticism of Capitol Police actions that day?
     
  18. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Fair point.

    Maybe none of this happened and was just something the Capital Police made up?

    Definitely something to consider.

    And what color hats were they even wearing?
     
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  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Trust the process
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  20. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    So today, we learned Trump wanted to seize voting machines from states.

    Also the FBI raided Clark's home.
     
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