Breaking 1-06-21: MAGA terrorist attack on Capitol

I think discussions like this are a great use of my time, and I expect all discourse on subjects of this matter to be cordial, respectful, and open-minded.

 

C'mon...
In that video you see one of the people in the crowd assault the LEO Hodges grabbing his mask off of him at :47 mark as he's trapped in the door. The crowd is yelling "Heave Ho" as they push forward at the 1:05 mark, note. At the 2:18 mark you see a couple of the crowd hitting the LEO with riot shields. You're seriously claiming, "This is hardly the behavior of a crowd intent on hurting the officers"?

That's not AOC being quoted in the video you posted.

Except we do know the crowd was fighting with LEO for an extended period of time. Prior to the time Babbitt had been shot.

We know the crowd had been chanting 'Hang Mike Pence' prior to that point.


What you're arguing is that the LEO should ignore events PRIOR to that moment and instead consider events in the FUTURE of that moment. Events that also happened in a Senate chambers that had been emptied of Senators, staff and the VP. We have no idea what would've happened if the chamber hadn't been emptied.

"Assume" are your words that you used repeatedly.

And of course the LEO at the Capitol deserves due process and that investigation is still continuing. I even said in the other thread that Chauvin deserves a fair trial and a robust defense without consideration of wider social consequences. Again unless you have other information I don't believe either, you, I or anyone on Clutchfans is prosecutor, defense or likely to be on the jury for either trial. You can complain about the media, but that's tangential to the facts of the case(s).

 

Wow I missed that.

A person who is physically breaking into a area that is being guarded by men with guns is afforded more leeway than Floyd.

Did he actually ask who she was a threat too?

Everybody inside the locked room, Its very telling that Stupid M turns into a pretzel and ignores actual facts to come to the defense of chauvi but this lady who is actually storming a barricade was no threat.

GTYFO

 

The person protected by her was on the other side of the door telling her to stop, was the officer supposed to let he crawl in and then hope she did not have weapons?

 

Just a walk through. No violence towards law enforcement...

Capitol rioter Jeffrey Sabol dragged cop to be beaten with a flagpole ‘in a fit of rage,’ prosecutor says

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/capitol-riots-man-admits-dragging-cop-to-be-beaten-by-flag-pole.html



Video:

 

I tried to tell you.

 

MAGA people are going to go to their graves believing they are the heroes. The fact is, and we all know it, that MAGA is a white supremacy extremist movement.

I don't know why we feel like there is anything else left to prove about MAGA. If some Trumper here chooses to live in his own cult fantasy where the movement they belong to is actually a heroic tale of truth, beauty, and justice there's just not a whole lot I have left to say to that person.

 

Well I did say "Really? You’re making me regret what I wrote earlier."

 

It's not worth arguing. The same assholes will argue an unarmed black man deserved to get shot in the back seven times for not following police orders. But people seconds away from congress members while carrying zip ties, wearing combat armor, and yelling threats should be treated with kid gloves because they were just touring the building.

 

So true. This arguing on here is just going round and round and round. The MAGA cult can't see how horrific this attack was, and will continue to see it through rose colored glasses as a walk through with a little bit of looting.

 

An even better use of your time is posting this post about discussion in a message board called Debate & Discussion.

 

Babbit was climbing through a broken window into an empty hallway. You can literally see on the video that there is no one but the officer in the hallway into which she was climbing. If we assume a worst case scenario, that the officer in the other video is right in front of the barricade that leads to the congress chamber shown later in the still image, she would have had to, after climbing through the window, get past that officer who is pointing a gun at her, and then climb over a barricade defended by a number of other officers with guns pointed at her, go past them, and then somehow hurt a congressperson.

Chauvin has been charged with murder, is in trial now, and his full personnel records were released within days of the incident.

Reactionary is what communists call people to whom they lose arguments. Why am I not defending the authoritarian cop that shot Babbitt? You characterization of me makes no sense. I look at facts and analyze them using logic and my experience. I don't have a political dog in the capitol riot fight. I would not have gone in with them. I think they were a bunch of morons with no coherent objective. I also think the danger they represented was overblown and that they caused far fewer injuries and deaths and fa

Yes. They pull off a mask so that he will be more susceptible to pepper spray, a non-lethal means to drive him back, and removing an advantage the police have over the rioters. The crowd is yelling heave ho to try to push past the shield wall. It is at this time that the officer gets stuck in the door and is being crushed and the protester at the front hears his screams and tells the crowd the guy is screaming they need to back up. The crowd backs up and the other officers are able to remove the man who was stuck in the door. Did that not happen? Are you seeing a different video than me? Clearly, they were not intent on crushing that guy in the door, or they would not have backed off to let him out. Is there some alternative explanation you would offer for that behavior? After he is pulled off the line, they go back to trying to force their way back through the doorway, almost as though their goal is not to injure the officers, but to get through the doorway. The officers are not a target, they are an obstacle.

Did you think I cannot tell a man with a beard from AOC? My point was, I do not accept the word of a congressman that the officers "defending" them saved their lives, especially a Democrat, because that is the narrative they are pushing.

Not one of the rioters injured a single person that was not a cop trying to prevent their entry by use of force, did they? Do you believe they were actually going to hang Mike Pence in front of the Capitol? When leftist protestors brought a guillotine to the capital, did you think they were going to behead McConnel? I view these rioters no differently than any other rioters. They are choosing to engage with police in a physical confrontation. They should expect to be pepper sprayed, battered with shields and clubs, shot with pepper balls and rubber bullets, sprayed with fire hoses, etc. All of the normal riot control options police use on rioters. Certainly if the police just shot one of the people at the BLM or Antifa riots that was 10 feet away from anyone like Babbitt, there would be an outcry wouldn't there?

I have covered this to death in the other thread, but I was asking you to assume something for the sake of argument not basing my argument on an assumption. They are two totally different things, one is a common rhetorical device that has nothing to do with basing an argument on an assumption. Just google the phrase assume for the sake of argument or assume arguendo.

Complaining about the media and the differential treatment of similarly situated officers was all I was doing, and yet this was the response. Chauvin had the misfortune of being part of a racially driven uproar, while Babbitt's killer was on the side the media and the government supported. To me, they should both be treated far more alike until a trial sorts out their relative culpabilities.

 

Babbit was just trying to get away from the angry mob!!!

 

Just... Incredible.

How can we possibly move forward when nearly half our country is openly and willfully ignorant and racist?

 

Your fictional rants are getting more and more outrages.

Now Chauvin and a guy actually doing his job are the same thing.

 

It's absolutely ridiculous. A Capitol officer sees a ****ing mob storming though a hallway breaking glass to enter through with US Representives literally on the other side while that same mob trampled over other officers and he wants to compare that to an officer shoving his knee on a motionless man for 5 minutes.

@StupidMoniker is a joke and it's even more sad that he isn't trolling and actually sincerely believed the bs spewing out of his mouth because no troll would dedicate this much time gish galloping.

Every one of his views is based on a principle of maintaining white christian hegemony. He'll defend a private company's right to deny service to a gay couple yet he'll ask for government intervention when private companies use market principles to remove people from their platform/property when they spew fascist rhetoric about overturning an election for a orange fascist. He'll defend a cop that shoves a knee to a black man's neck while motionless for 5 minutes yet be outraged that a cop shoots down a woman breaking through a glass door behind a angry mob full of rioters wanting to perform a fascist coup d'etat to halt a democratic process.

Hence he's a reactionary.

 

Not sure he is not trolling, got to own the libs somehow.

His ignorance of and ignoring all facts makes me think he is trolling.

Especially since he was nowhere to be found leading up to the election.

 

Jesus ****ing Christ, but this (and your entire line of reasoning around these two incidents) is just completely ****ing absurd, even for you. Babbit was killed trying to break through a barricaded door, as member of a demonstrably violent mob, that was chanting "Hang Mike Pence", and making other threats to members of Congress, while attacking the Capitol police. Floyd was killed after he was subdued, handcuffed, and motionless for minutes, posing no threat to anyone. The fact that your judgement is so impaired that you think these are remotely similar uses of lethal force AND that you are a lawyer is actually chilling.

 

I think folks in this thread clearly have no idea whatsoever what it is that lawyers do or how lawyers go about establishing fact patterns and crafting arguments.

 

Ahh, the good ol' days when republicans thought attacking the Capitol was bad and it was being done by left wing antifa rioters...