True, that's why I don't care about blown saves once in a while. The one thing you never have to worry about with "Billy the Kid" is his mental toughness and Clemens-like approach to pitching: he's coming after you, he won't back down and won't be intimidated. Regardless of numbers, I don't think Lidge is in Wagner's league.
i watched the mets game....do you know how many of those runs were earned???? wagner's still got it. david wrights error led to the 3 runs....
Alright Mets fan... stop hyperventilating. I guarantee you had Lidge given up any unearned runs in a blown save, this place would explode as usual... and we'd get about 10 posts from you commenting on his "psyche". Wagner still gets blame because he didn't have to challenge Bonds in that situation... but Wags is probably thinking he's still as good as he was in 1999 (which he's not), and he's also thinking that Bonds is on his last legs (which he is, but he happens to be hot right now). It also looks like Brian Bannister is a better hitter than he is pitcher, and the Mets are going to enjoy a lot of slugfests this season (especially when the weather gets warm). Enjoy another season of playing second-fiddle to the Bronx... once they start heatin up, this whole Mets "thing", David Wright "thing", and Wagner/Beltran "thing" will be a blip on the back pages. Pedro will still get his respect... but watch out if things start goin south (he's not much of a "trooper").
Wagner has yet to have ONE SAVE in the playoffs... where the pressure is amped up by a million, compared to anything he's ever done in the regular season. As has been shown in his limited playoff experience, Wagner's stuff becomes very very hittable in the playoffs simply because all those teams have guys who can hit a fastball... Chipper Jones, Jim Leyritz... it doesn't matter. He's a special guy... a notch below Rivera and Hoffman, but still someone who was able to be a top-flight closer for an extended period of time. But, as far as playoffs is concerend, Lidge's 2004 may have been one of the greatest runs by a closer EVER in the playoffs... and stands by itself when you compare the two. (and it will look even better if Lidge, contrary to your opinion, isn't done... rights the ship... and has a productive career past these first "microscopic" 20 games).
i was saying boo-urns. actually, if people were booing, that would be pretty bad considering all lidge has done, but he is messing up quite a bit these days. while lidge was struggling down the stretch and in the playoffs before the pujols blast and thus the pujols blast may not be what did it, i do think the old lidge is gone and will probably never return. there aren't many who lose their invincibility and then get it back. he was sick for 2 straight years. and the 2004 playoffs were amazing. his 3 perfect innings against the cards before the edmonds HR off miceli may have been the 3 most dominating innings i've ever seen from a pitcher. he made one of the best lineups in the game look like a little league team (pujols included). but you don't lose it for a month, suck in the playoffs, then struggle to start the next season and then just go back to being invincible. that's what lidge was for 2 years, he won't be again. he might still be a 40 saves per year closer and get it done a large percentage of the time, but it won't be automatic like it used to be. and any playoff situation will be scary. as for wagner v lidge. lidge's 2004 playoffs have to put him above wagner but just in the regular season wagner has the lead. his 1999 season and some season in the 2000's had just unbelievable numbers, and then last year he also beat lidge pretty good in ERA and WHIP i think. in a pressure moment, i still take lidge, but wagner has done it better for longer when it comes to the regular season. as for only having 2 pitches and people being onto him, that's not the problem. rivera has one pitch and no one's onto him. lidge had 2 pitches last year and slaughtered people. the location and intimidation aren't there right now. lol. other than occasionally saying something about shaq, dykstra is pretty much the only player i've ever heard my mom express an opinion about. she always hated him and called him a weasel. even though i barely remember seeing him play, that's all i ever think about when his name comes up, weasel. i guess the opinion is widespread.
F4P... no closer has ever been invincible in this game. Also, if you read through the thread, you'll see that Mariano has had stretches where he's blown a bunch (in fact, he's blown more saves in the last 3 years in the playoffs than Brad Lidge has)... but he comes back strong. Eckersly gave up a HR that basically lost the world series for the heavily favored Oakland A's in game 1... that's not easy to come back from, but he did. Hoffmann has had so-so years, mixed with injuries, but looks pretty darn good heading into his twilight. I understand that Lidge may never have the sheer "aura" that surrounded him during that 2004 playoff run... where it was almost as if he was playing a video game out there. But, to say that he can't get back to a level where you expect Mariano, Hoffman, or even Wagner to be at... is stretching it. A lot has been amplified by him having this stretch so close to the beginning of the season (where everything is amplified)... the only good thing about it is that if he rights the ship, by mid-season this will completely be an afterthought (and basically forgotten if we get close to the playoffs again). No pitcher can just go every year without making adjustments... fans have to realize that before we all go making our gospel-like proclamations (myself included).
This is comical. It is *exactly* Billy's "screw 'em, here comes the heater" mentality that is his biggest drawback as a closer. If you didn't see that when he was an Astro, I can't help you. The Bonds HR is just another in a long list of examples where Billy's "not backing down" bravado was not the wise course of action, and cost the team. The Jim Leyritz bomb in the playoffs that Nick brought up, on a fastball preceeded by about 6 other fouled-off fastballs, is the most glaring example.
The *only* thing that sets them apart, IMO, is longevity. Five years from now, we'll see where the comparison stands. I'm not willing to make a prediction, but it will be interesting how it plays out.
There is def something lidge needs to fix. Batters are really sitting on his sliders and his control isn't like how it use to be.
among the most frustrating things i've ever seen. i was so ready for billy to get his ass out of town.
Kevin Bass is speaking about Lidge right now and says that it looks like Brad Lidge has lost his feel of the slider. It's breaking too early and hitters can recognize it now. He noticed this towards the end of last year before the Pujols HR. He says it's mental and Lidge has lost confidence in his pitches. When Lidge was at his best he could throw the slider in the dirt and hitters would swing at it because they could not recognize it.
I wouldn't say Pujols runied him. A lot of the pithcers who pithced in the WBC have been struggling. A lot of it is becase pitchers get their arm strenght in spring training. Because they didn't. Now it's catching up to them Here's a list of some of them: WBC PITCHERS: Bruce Chen Baltimore Panama 0-2, 8.10 Chad Cordero Washington USA 3 HRs in 7 IP Freddy Garcia Chi. White Sox Venezuela 2-1, 7.80 Jorge Julio NY Mets Venezuela 0-1, 10.80 Sunny Kim Colorado Korea 0-0, 19.80 Esteban Loaiza Oakland Mexico 0-2, 8.59 Rodrigo Lopez Baltimore Mexico 1-1, 7.20 Oliver Perez Pittsburgh Mexico 1-2, 6.75 Jorge Sosa Atlanta Dom. Republic 0-3, 10.45 Huston Street Oakland USA 1-1, 7.94 No need to post Lidge's stats. We all know what's up.
From Jayson Stark's column.. (apparently he hasn't read this board..check out the bolded part) WBC is a good point http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insi...umnist=stark_jayson&id=2424797&CMP=ILC-INHEAD
2 seamer *cough *cough. - For Lidge. And btw, about Rivera. There's no other pitcher I'd want on the mound other than him in the bottom of the 9th. If he blows it, the baseball gods didn't have it in the cards.
Lidge getting pulled for Wheeler. Lights out is looking more and more like lights on these days. Whatever is wrong with Lidge it doesn't look like its getting better. Would moving Lidge back to set up for awhile let him improve his cofidence or would that diminish his confidence even more?
I have one question for the Astros coaching staff. Lidge had great years in 2004 and 2005 and with the exception of the pitch to Pujols and pitch to Podsenik, had a pretty good postseason. His 2004 postseason was arguably the best ever by a reliever. Why did the coaching staff find it necessary to have Lidge change his style to pitch out of the stretch instead of the windup with no men on base? He seemed to be pretty successful out of the windup in 2004 and 2005.
I don't think the coaching staff had anything to do with the change. I believe it was his decision after getting lit up early in the season while pitching from the windup.
