1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  1. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    4,476
    No I understand. All my life I’ve been the least forgiving person in the world. Guess I’m getting old. House situation
    didn’t bother me so much. Lucas past was the past. I’m not dwelling on the past as much.

    It’s not a matter on how you and I see John Lucas.....it’s how Harden and Westbrook see John Lucas. They see
    a man running recovery centers, youth basketball camps, player development with Rockets players. He works
    with the layers before practice, during practice and after practice. Travels with the team. Knows the Rockets offensive
    scheme as an assistant coach. Fitch had him studying film play.....question and answer sessions.

    Told not to cuss in front of David Robinson and Avery Johnson and did it anyway. In the interview he says the kids often don’t stay long, because he tells them “No.”. Like Fitch did with him. That tough love saved his life. Players often
    grow up spoiled......will tell Harden and Westbrook no. For the most part.
     
  2. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    4,476
    Most people know that Westbrook and CP3 walked the halls and met prior to a game to discuss league and social issues. What many people don’t know is that John Lucas was asked to speak to the players (all teams) about circumstances.

    John Lucas has more respect in the league than some people realize. From what I hear, he didn’t get yelled at like when Beverley went after Michelle Roberts. At least Lucas has that going for him. Lol.

    When players in the league like you, that comes in handy come free agency time.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  3. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 1999
    Messages:
    9,070
    Likes Received:
    6,930
    He was a great player at one point, has the players respect, and is a great communicator who knows how to work with guys. Lucas is a great LIFE coach. A guy who also possesses a wealth of hoops knowledge. You want him on your staff.

    But, he's not an NBA HC.
     
  4. Sep11ie

    Sep11ie Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2018
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    742
    Idiot.

    It's getting harder and harder to be a Rockets fan.
     
    bmelo, HP3, D-rock and 1 other person like this.
  5. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,423
    Likes Received:
    6,746
    This makes zero sense.

    Why would you come here if you have not enjoyed the Rockets in at least 10 to 20 years?

    Who is insane?

    Ok you can now continue to virtue signal.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,423
    Likes Received:
    6,746
    What does any of that have to do with the Rockets?
     
  7. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,920
    Likes Received:
    12,972
    We control his thoughts and emotions from this thread. Super amusing...
     
    Rudyc281 likes this.
  8. Reeko

    Reeko Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    21,440
    Likes Received:
    56,733
    ok
     
  9. Rokman

    Rokman Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes Received:
    762
    Recognizing irrationality in people is not virtue signaling it's called awareness. I'm putting a spotlight on something that I think most "fanatics" don't realize. Every year teams try to hype their business by telling you amazing, wonderful, incredible things will happen if you're a fan and for the past 25 years the Rockets have been saying that and every year the fanatics are left screaming and crying and on suicide watch over what business owners in a sport are doing. It's insane and there are a lot of people on here who react just like that. Not all mind you, but a lot. That's not healthy. There is no reason for fans to get excited this next year about the Rockets cause they are not going to be any better than last year. Next year will be year 26 without a Finals appearance much less a Championship. Rational people can see that. Irrational people cannot.
     
  10. topfive

    topfive CF OG
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    16,136
    Likes Received:
    29,078
    Great points. You're actually talking me into Lucas as our coach. I just worry about the X's and O's. You'd think as a life-long NBA player and coach that he'd know that, but this is the modern NBA and who knows? JVG has the same question about him, too.
     
    ApacheWarrior, D-rock and Ramo$e like this.
  11. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,423
    Likes Received:
    6,746
    Um ok.
     
    HP3 and Ramo$e like this.
  12. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    896
    ok Ms. Cleo the psychic..... because you are the golden standard of fan rational? What is you basis for comparison? How should Rockets fans behave? lol All you can do is have a hypothesis at at best. You think Raptors knew they would win before they got Khawi? Most fans cheer for their team even if they suck. What's it to you? We are in a better position now (even though we don't have picks) than we were 5 years ago before we acquired CP3. We had one star and parlayed that into two. At one point we had 0. I could see if we didn't make the playoffs, like the Lakers in 2019. I've seen Rockets compete and get outcoached(thanks MDA) by other teams never did I feel like we weren't good enough to beat any team at the end of the day. Since when did losing to the eventual champs make you not a contender? Heat won one more game than us because they don't defend(double) Timmy like they defend Harden, period. Rational and logic are two different things. Logic dictates your conclusion is a bit irrational. You are trying to explain the Rockets fan base like they are Trump supporters (die hard fanatic's) who don't accept his failures . Difference is Rockets fans accept their failures and move on. I bet if you asked fans or asked the players through 1986-1993 did they believe we could win a championship after being bumped from the Finals by the Celtics they would say yes! It's a process. We've been competitive, we've been in the mix, we are still in the mix. We enjoy being the underdogs. I get that you may want to keep your expectations tapered but at what point do you stop being a fan of the Rockets then? If 26 years is too long for you.....why are you here? If you don't believe it can happen currently?

    Tilman is cheap and a douche probably, but I do believe we wants to win because that's what was sold to him when purchasing the team. Even douche's want to win (i.e.Trump). If we don't win, Tilman don't make any money. That's a fact. So when he says he really wants to win I'm sure he does.
     
  13. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    896
    It's like you want Lucas because he's homegrown Rockets but you don't want Harden and Westbrook to get you there again only to be out coached. The windows is closing and we can't mess around anymore.
     
  14. topfive

    topfive CF OG
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    16,136
    Likes Received:
    29,078
    Homegrown Rockets? Not at all. If I'm judging Lucas on his contribution to Houston sports, I'd heavily factor in his selfishly torpedoing the last half of the '80s Rockets.

    My criteria for coach include someone who has the respect of players, especially stars, and Lucas definitely checks that box. It would also be a great feel-good story if he led the Rockets to a title after sabotaging them a few decades earlier.

    However, I also want a coach an innovative strategy that works with the modern NBA game, and one who adapts that strategy mid-game when necessary, depending on what the opposition is doing. I have no idea whether Lucas meets that challenge, but my gut tells me he doesn't.

    Neither does JVG, though. And Silas might (who knows?), but he'd definitely be light on the respect until he proves something as a head coach.

    This is my way of saying that no matter which of the three we pick, we're probably f%$ked in at least one important area. Thanks, Tilman!
     
    Plowman likes this.
  15. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    14,693
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    92/93 Spurs: 39-22. He took over in the middle of the season after the team started 9-11. They eventually lost the the Phoenix Suns team that went to the Finals

    93/94 Spurs: 55-27. They traded away their 2nd best player in Sean Elliott to acquire Dennis Rodman. They lost in the 1st Round of the playoffs partly due to Rodman going off on Lucas.

    94/95 Sixers: 24-58. Their two highest scorers were Dana Barros and Clarence Weatherspoon. I think that says enough about this team.

    95/96 Sixers: 18-64. This team sucked harder but had Weatherspoon, a rookie Stackhouse and MadMax on the roster.

    01/02 Cavs: 29-53. Andre Miller, Wesley Person and Lamond Murray. Nuff said

    02/03 Cavs: 17-65. Ricky Davis "emerged" this year and Big Z actually played 81 games.


    The Sixers stint is noticeable because he was not only the coach but also the GM.

    Basically when Lucas has been dealt a shitty hand it's been shitty returns. When he has HoF player(s) his team succeeds.
     
    sirjesse likes this.
  16. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    I think it's fair to say that none of those teams exceeded expectations for roster talent in those seasons. To be fair, they didn't underperformed either but squeezing the most out of a roster is what makes a great coach and in that standard he seems to be mediocre. Note that the year after Lucas left the Spurs they went 62-20 and Robinson was MVP. The year before him they went 49-33. After he left the Sixers they went 31-51. The Cavs got LeBron the next year so we can't really compare that.
     
  17. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    6,287
    Likes Received:
    8,900
    He was a replacement level coach then and he is now too. He’s unremarkable as a HC and no one else would even consider him for that position. Jumping through hoops to rationalize hiring a glorified therapist as HC is all you can do. He is hired? We get a second round exit until the team is blown up.
     
    HP3, Hank McDowell and D-rock like this.
  18. BMoney

    BMoney Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,436
    Likes Received:
    5,377
    Man, you are soft.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  19. Rokman

    Rokman Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes Received:
    762
    First of all it doesn't take Ms. Cleo to realize this team isn't going anywhere. I've been watching basketball for 30 years and know the sport inside and out and you pretty well learn what teams have it and what teams don't. This team as constructed don't. Second, read the posts on the forum if you want to get a sense of fan rationale. How should fans behave? Unsurprised. Many are acting like they can't believe what's going on. The coach has changed every 4 years for the past 3 coaches, now 4th, the pattern is pretty obvious. Morey only had so much time left on the clock. 3rd I'm a Trump supporter and am openly critical when I see him make mistakes and most everyone I know is too and calls it when he slips. You're entitled to your opinion though. 5th, I didn't say I wasn't a Rockets fan I said fanaticism is irrational and you can enjoy the game without being irrational.

    I agree with you that I think Tilman wants to win but he's not going to go into luxury tax territory. Not gonna happen and most Championship teams require that. He may be hemorrhaging a ton of money on all his other businesses and sure isn't going to sink money into this one if he's doesn't think he's going to get a return. Don't expect him to do it this year either. Look at it rationally and you will see how things are going to pan out. You'll also be a lot happier fan.
     
  20. Vivi

    Vivi Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    18,093
    Likes Received:
    19,877
    What are exactly the things this brabra guy got right? Anybody willing to share? Or is he the 2020 RoeChrist/KingDrew/BasketballRehab?

    Also, has ch posted anything after the playoffs ended?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now