Why do you stop at the Qing Dynasty? Go back to the Ming just before that. Tibet did not belong to China then. How about going back to the Zhou? Tibet did not belong to China then either. You know what else? South of China belonged to Viet Nam back then! (But of course South of Viet Nam belonged to the Cham at that time!)
I kind of like THE RACK OF SIX because he is an unapolgetic hardcore chinese imperialist from the old school. Unllike other shrinking violet posters who like to pretend that China is a delicate lily being pushed around by mean old Tibetans, and who like to pretend that China is in Tibet on a peace mission to civilze their beloved junior cousin tibetans, good ol' the RACK OF SIX is unfazed at calling it what it is, and is happy to ask for seconds as the PLA rolls around guns blazing. A refreshing change.
Um, because by the time the Qing came around, Tibet was internationally recognized as part of China and the previous Dalai Lamas submitted to Qing rule. And to claim that the south of China belonged to Viet Nam is dishonest at best. Viet Nam's roots traces far clearer to the Nanyue, which held only very small portions of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan, not even the whole portions. There is the Minyue in Fujian and small portions Zhejiang, but that is a multi-ethnic/tribe state. So to claim that Southern China is not Chinese is ridiculous. Why stop there? Parts of Hunan, Jiangxi, Anhui and Hubei were conquered, they are Chu, not Chinese obviously. Beijing, Hebei, Liaoning, portions of Korea and Inner Mongolia is Yan and so on and so forth.
Actually, that is part of what freedom and Democracy is about. Freedom and Democracy are very loud and messy. Everyone says what they want and everyone chooses what they want to listen to, that's freedom.
You are not very smart, are you? Read the post I responded to and see if you understand what I was trying to say! As far as your assertion that "it was dishonest" at best to claim South of China belonged to Viet Nam, you followed that with the statement that Nanyue did indeed own a portion of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan! Which is it? Did portion of Guangdong and such belonged to the original Viet people or not? Make up your mind.
Didn't Tibet once belong to the dinosaurs? Rightfully, it should belong to their decendents, the iguana's and alligators.
I did understand you said. The poster said Tibet belonged to China since the Qing Dynasty, you took issue with it and said why not earlier. I explained it to you. If you have no issues as to Tibet being part of China since the Qing, why bring it up? As for Nanyue, were you aware that Nanyue was actually founded by a Chinese? Not just any Chinese actually. A Han Chinese. As a matter of fact, were you aware that both Nanyue and the state of Changsha acknowledged to suzerainty to the Han Empire. Know what that means? You'd have a much stronger argument for Northern Vietnam being part of China instead of Southern China being Vietnamese, both of course, ridiculous claims.
it's not Dalai Lama they claimed...but Dalai Lama clique!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! obviosuly, there is a big difference between the two.. how funny that such a big differnce so many intellectual people would conviniently ignore ....Nancy Pelosi inclued///.l
Of course I had issue with using the claim that Tibet was part of China since the Qing as the moral basis for its occupation. Your explaination was weak The world recognized English rule over India years ago. The world power occupied China itself before. Not just because a power at the time says something, it does not make it absolute. Now the world says China should return Tibet. How come you don't like that idea so much anymore? You also like that the previous Dalai Lamas submitting to you but you don't like so much that the current one doesn't. Talk about dishonesty!!
So in other words, if Tibet was part of China since the Qing Dynasty, what "occupation" is there? Quick, did you know that the Chinese are occupying China? The balls. Gotta show them a lesson. Had the English not pulled out of India, the world would likely still recognize India as part of the British Empire. When the English occupied India, the UN also wasn't around, its predecessor, the League of Nations also wans't around when the initial occupation occurred and is now defunct. Likewise the World Bank, IMF etc. All those international agencies, which are responsible for setting international law, economic growth, health etc, all recognize Tibet as part of China. That is a blatant lie. Who in the world says China should return Tibet. Look up the number of countries that recognize Tibet as an independent sovereign nation. That's ridiculous argument and you know it. At the time the 5th Dalai submitted to Qing rule, he was both the spiritual and political leader of Tibet. He had the authority to make treaties on behalf of Tibet, if it was independent. The current Dalai one of the spiritual leaders in Tibet but a political leader of only Dharamsala. He has no authority to negotiate on behalf of Tibet as a political entity. Furthermore, the PLA didn't move into Tibet in 1959, they did in 1951. The current apparently Dalai didn't have much issue with that until it became clear that his power would be challenged. Indeed. You only need to look in the mirror to see where the lies are coming from.
When one government takes over for or overthrows another, it inherits the land that the original government held. The ROC overthrew the Qing Dynasty, and we overthrew the ROC. Therefore we have a completely valid claim to Tibet because the Qing Dynasty held it.
Man the Qing Dynasty was some cool ****. Who could forget about that? Nothing is more relevant than the Qing Dynasty.
Imperialist? Hardly. We merely asserted control over our land and saving it from British domination, because the Dalai Lama was getting ready to make a pact with the Brits to make Tibet a British protectorate. The US has no historical claim to Afghanistan or Iraq. "Saddam tried to kill my dad" is not a valid claim to Iraq, sorry.
OH THE HELPFUL CHINESE ELDER BROTHERS SAVING TEH TIBETANS 1NCE AGAIN THANK YOU ELDER BROTH3RS! check back with me in 60 years and the US is trying to annex Iraq and Afghanistan. You disappoint me THE RACK OF SIX. For awhile you were a real patriot - now you are just trying to soft-sell me on Chinese occupation. Stop shrinking from China's RIGHTFUL DOMINION over east asia. It is your responsibility not to.
Looks like Tibet may actually have a claim to China. See how ridiculous this is? And you still haven't answered my other question yet. In 755 China had been greatly weakened by internal rebellion, which would last until 763. In contrast, Trisong Detsän's reign was characterized by the reassertion of Tibetan influence in Central Asia and against China. Early in his reign regions to the West of Tibet paid homage to the Tibetan court. From that time onward the Tibetans pressed into the territory of the Tang emperors, reaching the Chinese capital Chang'an (modern Xian) by 763/764. Tibetan troops occupied Chang'an for fifteen days and installed a puppet emperor while Emperor Daizong of Tang was in Luoyang. Nanzhao (in Yunnan and neighbouring regions) remained under Tibetan control from 750 to 794.
The inability to accept other people's way of thinking and preference in the environment/system that they prefer to live in is not a democratic state of mind. What kind of freedom are you talking about when you don't even believe that another human being has the freedom to have his own opinion and choose the way that he wants to live in (whether his way is what you prefer or not)? Your way of thinking is fascist and authoritarian.
Great post. As a Chinese-American I agree with a lot of what you say and have mixed emotions regarding threads dealing with Chinese issues. On the one hand I'm proud of my heritage but on the sametime think there is a lot that can be improved and am dismayed by the zealous nationalistic attitude that many Chinese seem to get caught up in. I am also bothered by many of the posts made by non-Chinese posters in response too that often are insulting and belittling in nature. I feel that the Chinese get paranoid at times and that paranoia bleeds through but belittling the CHinese and Chinese accomplishments isn't helping.
I find that a rather shallow grammatical difference. That would be like saying its not GW Bush's fault we invaded Iraq but the GW Bush Admin.. Anytime the PRC is saying "Dalai Clicque" it is no doubt they are trying to tar the Dalai Lama.
