I notice you left off trampolines as Slamball pretty much kills your point entirely -- had they gone with 4 goals plus tramps it would be a major olympic event by now.
Agreed. <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BzkkzDQiFAg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BzkkzDQiFAg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
Well, the basketball anology isn't very realistic, but I agree that making something more complicated doesn't make them better. In this case, I would argue that the lack of rules in MMA does actually make it a more interesting sport. For fans, one of the primary parts of boxing, MMA, and sports in general, is the anticipation of the matchup and seeing how that matchup plays out. Upsets aside, MMA seems far more intesting in this regard. The first few UFC's were partially a joke, partially a Jiu-Jitsu infomercial, and partially a real fight. They had Sumo wrestlers going against Jiu-Jitsu specialists, and no one had any idea what was going to happen. It was fascinating at the time, but not much tactics were involved at that stage. Mostly it proved that there were certain fighting techniques that were more successful than others in an open fight. These days, the primary skill set has been partially defined, but there is still that extra layer of speculation and interest that goes beyond who has more power, or who has more speed. I hope that MMA doesn't stall out with a simple "Lidell" formula for fighting. Just yesterday, Lidell lost with that formula, and a Judo expert won the undercard, so I hope that means something. As money starts to flood into MMA, it will be intersting to see how the sport evolves. I would think that MMA has quite a few major changes to go before it settles into anything like a formula. BTW, the attitude that MMA is somehow a "lesser" sport than boxing, I find hilarious, when documentation of martial arts techniques show it has been practiced for over 2000 years. MMA is obviously a mutt when compared to specific martial arts, but it is an extremely interesting experiment. There is no historical precedent that would put boxing on a higher stage.
I like UFC a lot - but it is small time compared with most major sports. The UFC stills struggles to even get enough decent fighters to make a solid card for these pay for views. Some of the records of the fighters last night (a 'major' pay per view event) were modest at best -- there were some 8-4 type guys etc. filling the card. On another note -- and i'm sure it was just by chance, but there certainly were a bunch of white vs. black matches (not the trunks).
IMO people think this because the UFC is struggling a bit right now to keep these pay per views with a mix of new fighters so we are seeing guys out there that don't look like top athletes. For every fighter like Houston (who at 35 was tending bar a year ago) or Jackson that were ripped there are a couple that look like they need to train a harder to lose the roll hanging over their shorts. They may be great MMA's but it doesn't appear that the UFC is their full time job. I do like the octagon set up for MMA better than a traditional ring, but the chain link fence between the padding makes it look cheesy and gimmicky especially to a new person checking out the sport.
It's UFC, hands down. Those who vote boxing just haven't watched UFC long enough to understand or appreciate the technical aspects of it. I haven't read the whole thread, but using another analogy: MMA = Baseball Boxing = Batting Practice Boxing is only one aspect of MMA. Once you get into MMA, you can't watch a boxing match the same way again. I love seeing a good judo throw (Karo), Kimura attempt, choke attempt, etc. in the cage/ring. I don't enjoy seeing someone with 16oz gloves jab each other repeatedly for 10 rounds. But, in the end, who really gives a damn what others think. Watch what you enjoy. Hell, there are people who even watch lacrosse I assume, since ESPN has been plugging the hell out of that too. So watch what floats your boat, and don't worry about the comparisons. Also, to address this particular post. The reason why the fight card wasn't stacked top to bottom with A+ fighters is because they put on 9 fights a card, with at least 1 card a month. Of course, not all the fighters are going to be Top 10, but that still didn't take away from the awesome fights they had on the card. And yes, it's still small time compared to other sports. Although the first UFC was in 93, it wasn't until about 2000 that the sport evolved as a true mixed martial arts (where fighters started training in all aspects, not just having a jujitsu guy face a striker, etc, like the early days) So, in essence, the sport as we know it, has only been around about a decade. So obviously it's not gonna have as many athletes in sheer numbers as the other sports. That will only increase though as the sports popularity increases. And, as far as the white vs. black fighters, why even mention that?? That's the stupidest thing I've heard so far. That's all I'll say about that.
That's also why the US is rapidly losing ground in the sport (though it remains highly popular among a large & growing hispanic minoirity). That trend has gone on for years however, which is why the US has lost a lot of boxing dominance. Trust me, I have been watching it since UFC 1. Don't tell me I don't appreciate it. And to use your analogy: slamball = baseball, basketball = batting practice. I don't mind htat people like the UFC but when youngters who don't know much about or understand boxing like to declare it dead or inferior or whatever it gets annoying. Inside the internet echo chamber which is heavily slanted towards MMA fans it sort of feeds off itself. Iironicially enough, this happens right after the biggest event in UFC history was essentially a sloppy first round KO between two wrestlers who engaged in a mediocre boxing match.
They have changed the rules of the UFC to make it more like boxing -- that is why we saw nothing but strikers last PPV. When you have guys like Houston making a big splash when they are 35 years old and have been fighting pro about a year during a major PPV event -- your sport still has a long way to go.
This will be my last post, since arguing over the internet is a big waste of time. But, I've been a huge fan of boxing. Jack Johnson is probably my all time favorite boxer, although obviously I never saw him fight personally. I appreciate those boxers with huge hearts and even bigger personalities - Ali, Foreman, both Sugar Rays, etc, etc. I have even trained myself, so I understand the technique behind it. But boxing is dying, and it has very little to do with the UFC. It has killed itself. Don King, and all the other big time promoters have destroyed it. It's all about the paycheck now. It seems like none of the top tier fighters fight for the love of the sport anymore, and that's a recent phenomena. I like how you say the Rampage/Chuck fight was a mediocre boxing match. Did you watch the PBF/DeLaHoya fight??? That was a mediocre boxing match, and that was the fight that was supposed to save the sport. Neither one of them put it all out, they were both in it for the paycheck. Hell, i'd rather watch a mediocre boxing match like those on The Contender reality show, cause you know those guys are actually fighting for something, and put their heart into it. So maybe boxing isn't dead yet, but it's definitely on life support. And when people see another sport that's growing, and arguably more exciting with more exciting fighters, then there's a good chance it will die out of any mainstream popularity it's been clinging onto. Anyway, it's pointless arguing anything, back to my original thought - enjoy the fights you want to see, and don't worry about those who don't have the same opinion as you on the sport. I've learned not to worry about those with differing opinions, whether educated or non-educated (not saying my opinions are either). I enjoy watching the fights, even when I'm surrounded by people ignorant of MMA, who bag on it the whole time, which is usually the case when we get a big group together to watch UFC/Pride/K1/etc. Each sport will run it's natural course. In an optimal world, both would flourish, and we could see the best fighters and fights in both sports, but only time will tell. But you can't argue that, at the present time, MMA is on the rise, while boxing, is faltering at best.
This sentence: belies this sentence If you understood boxing, you would understand that the display that Mayweather put on was far from mediocre in the boxing sense. Rather it was a virtuoso performance of skill, to an extent that few boxers have ever been able to manage. De La Hoya tried mightily to solve it but eventually could not. It wasn't the most entertaining thing in the world for a casual fan - precisely because it wasn't a stand-up slugfest. But that didn't make it mediocre. Ratehr it was two HOF boxers executing on the highest level. The hare won, and it didn't make for an eye-popping slugfest. When I say "mediocre boxing", I mean those silly hooks that Liddell has managed to knock out a bunch of wrestlers and grapplers with for the past few years. It was mediocre enough to get him punched out - by an another wrestler no less, with yet another looping shot. It makes for a good ooh and ahh moment, but after that it's gone. Candy. So if you'd rather see toughman competitions, more power to you. MMA is definitely better suited to the short attention span youtube age, except for when it turns into a lay-fest, whch is not infrequent.
I far prefer boxing. Love its history...love the "texture" of the sport rooted in its history, particularly in this country. It's like baseball and horse racing to me...it has a charm that escapes the instant gratification crowd. The essence of the game is missed by those looking for the ESPN highlight moment. Man, that sounded snobby. I don't mean to come off like that. But that's how I view it, frankly.
Boxing's 150+ years of history, culture, and literature vs. Joe Rogan, fomer fear factor host? Surely you jest.
Boxing is a sport where people pummel each other with their fists (taped so they can inflict more damage) and aren't fully allowed to defend themselves by grabbing. Boxing has a history of being tainted with corruption and where most professional participants are taking advantaged of. Boxing is a sport where many participants can't speak cleary when they grow older from the head trauma. You have a goofy definition of culture. I enjoy watching boxing as much as the next guy but I don't have a romantic view of a sport where two guys trying to beat the crap out of each other. Sam, have you ever stepped into the ring with somebody trying to knock your head off?
I'm not going to waste my time defending MMA or boxing. Like I said, enjoy them both if you'd like, or don't, if you don't like. Since you've been watching MMA since UFC 1 you say, you must either enjoy it somewhat, or just like to torture yourself. I sincerely doubt you've been watching since UFC1 however, since you refer to MMA as a toughman competition for the "short attention span" youtube age. One of my favorite MMA fights was Saku vs Royce Gracie at Pride 8, which lasted 1 hr 30 mins. Anyway, I'm absolutely through with this thread and this BBS. I know there's no use arguing against you, because you're set in your thoughts, and obviously are good at goating and debating on the internet since you have a ridiculous 17000+ posts. And I'm justly at fault for even starting this cause I'm wasing my time arguing with someone who obviously has no life, and I know that won't get me anywhere, so I resort to a ad hominem argument. So ban me if you'd like, I'm out. You won, you've watched all the UFCs ever, and are an all knowing, boxing and MMA expert. Boxing is superior, UFC is only good for youtoobers. I will stick to watching toughman competitions, and the ultimate real sport - WRASSLIN!!!
Joe Rogan is an easy target. There are a thousand easy targets in the world of boxing. Many more than MMA... total and per capita.
Ring Lardner, Norman Mailer, George Plimpton, etc etc etc. Boxing is part of our cultural heritage, like it or not. I have stepped in the ring, but just sparring, not for real which is a whole different animal. OK, you're BANNED!!! Consider it done.
