Both James Harden and Jeremy Lin deserve to be at the All Star Weekend

Fair enough, thank you for sharing your own insights.

 

I find OP's reasoning just fine as it shows Lin's real impact, and you need to calm down. Lin is playing great last year and lately this season with team winning, so I don't have any problem if he gets the recognition with his popularity and performance since last year(small sample size this early season, especially the awful start).

It's not like Yi gets voted in by asian fans with very little game to speak of, or Carter/Tmac... voted in in the past without palying meaningful amounts of games.

 

Carter and Hill got voted in by fans due to their previous accomplishments and at least being amongst the elite at their positions once upon a time...

Yes the All Star game is for the fans and we are the ones that vote them in, but for the most part it has always been players who are amongst the elite at their position who gets the votes.

JLin is solely getting in on his popularity. Can easily ramble off ten point guards who are having a better season than him at this point. But his story is a intriguing one and that's who the fans want to see...

I just hope (as a Rockets fan) that next year he makes it to the all star game because of his play and not just because of his popularity...

 

I mean no disrespect to RoxD and this is ONLY MY OPINION. But these numbers are bu775h!t...

How in the hell can Kobe have a 21 point higher impact rating over Harden when Kobe is surrounded by hall of famers and his team is under .500...??? That right there shows these numbers or bogus...

Furthermore, these efficiency ratings, impact ratings, on and off the floor, blah blah blah... None of these numbers factor in who's on the court with those players and who's on the court on the opposing teams defense and how they are playing in reference to their averages which will always make these numbers meaningless (in my opinion)...

JLin got the fans vote so he deserves to go... PERIOD....

 

I'd rather see Lin fix his 3pt shooting during all-star break. He'll get his chance later on if he can do that.

 

You know, there are ways to state your point without sounding so disrespectful and pompous to others. It kinda takes away from whatever point you're trying to make.

And while you pull up reason after reason about how you'd rather see Curry and Aldridge in the ASG before Lin...it raises the question on why you feel so antagonistic towards a home team player? Like someone said in another post, sometimes the people here feel like the brother who won't get your back in school.

Are you sincerely telling me that there is no emotion/love involved when you vote for your favorite All Stars? And that you exclusively vote only the most deserving players? If so, then I understand why you say what you say and good for you.

 

If he gets voted in, he gets voted in. He's a popular player after all. But you're not going anywhere to try to justify his ASG appearance with his performance/stats. No matter how you spin it.

 

First of all, I think its a good thread because you presented the numbers and your argument in a very clear way. I like the tables.

That said, this elevation factor is just another way of looking at On/Off offensive efficiency differential. It may be interesting to look at, but it can't be a major factor in how one votes for the all-star team. First, its not accounting for whom the players are playing with. Second, setting that aside, its only covering one side of the floor (offense).

If you're looking for a stat that given an overall estimate of how a player is helping his team's efficiency (on both ends), then I'd suggest an adjusted +/- or adjusted statistical +/- stat rather than this. You can check out xRAPM, IPV, or ASPM.

 

durvasa, thanks for all the great links in your sig line. I've never seen Vorped before. It's perfect for helping me talk about bb with my wife. Thanks!

 

Doesn't matter how the LOH spins it, he plays less than 100 NBA games, played out of the world during Linsanity as starting pg for the first time, other teams had to specially planned their defence on him, went on to bring his underperforming, superstar-saturated team to playoff but injured and could'nt play, then moved to new city, new team, new players, new coach & new system, struggling initially with recovering injury and the new system with Hardening balling most of the time, out of his Linsanity role and adjusting. Now besides his outside shot being consistent (but his fg% is over 40% man), every LOH jump on him even though he is leading the most potent offence of such a young team. Man, I think you LOH deserve a team like Washington or Cleveland with out of the world 1st pick pg and still struggling. He has 38 pts games against some of the best team when his team superstar was out of action and he delivered. He has been playing better and better and the team players are playing better with his assists. He does not play the kind of minutes like the other pgs who have been around for a while. Be fair to your own starting pg. If he gets in, he gets in and applaud. Are the LOH truly Rocket fans?

 

Your numbers on Howard are spot on.. But the fact is he is still putting up better numbers than Asik. Kobe has a lot more talent around him than Harden. I don't think that can be argued. So with that said _ how can Kobe's impact be so much higher than Harden's. Specially when all the "EXPERTS" had Houston wining around 20 games and had the Lakers as championship contenders.

Or maybe it's me and I just don't get it...

 

Lin had become popular not only because of his story but because he is a talented and a great player..do people really think that fans would stick up to him if he s**ks...unlikely...he might not be in the level of the elite as of now but he is getting there..as a supporter/fan of the team shouldn't we be happy that lots of people are seeing him as an All Star calibre...instead of downgrading him shouldn't we vote for him because he is a Rockets?

 

I think it's because we have better bench players, and when harden is resting usually Lin is organizing offense well. That's why we don't see a big dropoff when harden is off the court.

 

Not true. He's 3rd in voting. If he deserved to be there based on his popularity, he'd be in the top 2 guards in voting.
Once he achieves this (top 2) then he truly will deserve to be there based on his popularity - AND (funnily enough) he WILL be there (based on his popularity).

 

Lin doesnt DESERVE it because people like him. If he gets voted it, fine, its the will of the people but other than that, he is not an All Star. (I still like him a lot though. Just not at that level yet.)

 

My dad used the same argument against Obama. lmfao

Anyways the Allstar game is a glorified pep rally for the fans so the NBA can further market their product. It is as authentic as the WWE imho. I hope the kid makes it as it will showcase the Rockets. If Lin was a Knick he would easily be the starting PG using whatever clause that let Blake start last year. Hell JR Smith is trying to get himself voted in despite only being a 6th man on the Knicks. Enjoy the exposure Lin is getting for the Rockets...maybe it will get some Rocket fans to actually show up to games.

 

yep. this.

I think eventually he'll have an allstar caliber year, but this is not it. I'm excited by the improvement i've seen over the last month, but he's a long way away from being a true allstar. I figure Mr. Lin would rather earn his spot through his play rather than his "popularity".

 

You're taking this discussion to some type of fan of team morality direction or something...

I didn't say he wasn't talented or couldn't be elite.

But you just said he is not elite as of now. So how am I downgrading him when I pointed out the same thing...

I'm willing to bet he's even embarrassed about playing in the all star game...