Both James Harden and Jeremy Lin deserve to be at the All Star Weekend

Harden deserves it but Lin doesn't. He's not even in the top 10 of pgs

 

So.... Kobe is the goat?

 

These stats just say that the celtics bench is better than the starters while the lakers bench is awful.

 

Great use of stats, Allegro would be proud.

 

We're Rockets fans and Jeremy Lin needs our support.. Vote!

 

Yeah, I cringed at first when I saw how many votes he was getting. But, Garnett is up there again, Grant Hill got voted as a starter in a season where he barely played 15 games, Vince Carter was voted in well past his prime. This is what you get when fans vote, so be it. I'm not going to hate on Lin for having a great story, and being a likable guy. There's no need to try to manipulate numbers in order to rationalize it. He's part of the best backcourt in basketball and his team will probably be 7 or 8 games over .500 when the all star break rolls around. Maybe Kobe should be the one to be embarrassed to be voted in when his team is not even in playoff contention?

 

I don't think that "caution" does a good enough job disclaiming the absurd reasoning behind your original post.

I don't think it's you convincingly fessing up to what you did: You found an obscure advanced metric that says more about team play than individual performance--even though all-star games reward individuals. So you ignored that part. And then you further abused it with per48 extrapolation to try to validate or invalidate all-star game fan voting, as though there is any relationship at all between per-48 numbers and what does or even "should" enter into the discussion when evaluating these players based on merit. The two don't track each other with good reason.

If they did, then Daniel Orton of OKC would lead all players in all star voting with his 70.82 EFF/48 rating based on scoring 2 points and blocking 1 shot in 1 minute of 1 total game.

Your thread stinks bro.

 

Harden is playing exceptionally well...and deserves an all star spot...

Lin is playing at a solid level, but not as an allstar...honest fans know that...Westbrook, Curry, and Paul are having excellent seasons...

 

It's only partially a popularity contest. The starters win due to popularity (and originally it was believed the most popular players would be the ones who have earned their popularity with their accomplishments).

However, the bench is voted in by the coaches, and they tend to vote based on merit.

Since Jeremy Lin isn't apparently popular enough to bypass the coaches and be voted in as a starter, I really see no way in which it can possibly be argued that he deserves to be on the All-Star team. Maybe in the future, but not this year.

Lin over Tony Parker? That would make a mockery of the All-Star game.

 

if it were any other year I might feel different, but since the game is in Houston I really feel like Lin should be there in the role of host, whatever the capacity of his participation. like I said, I'm sure they will find a place for him off the bench in the big game or in some sort of skills drill or celebrity game.

that being said, does anyone think Yao Ming has a role in this year's festivities?
it could be nice to see him out there.
it could be anything. he could stand there and get dunked over for all I care.

 

Lin averages more than 30 minutes a game, so it's totally reasonable to use per-48 stats unlike the examples you are referencing.

 

What people lose sight of with the "what harm is there in fans voting on what the fans want to see" reasoning is that this is about more than just that. All Star recognition has been a way of acknowledging the best players in the NBA for decades now. It's used to evaluate a player's legacy, contributions to their team, hall of fame eligibility, and a host of other things. It's shorthand for "the best players." It's even become a way of incentivizing players in their contracts, as the trend now is to include All Star recognition as a contract milestone, the way the Rockets did with James Harden:

http://rockets.clutchfans.net/3407/houston-rockets-salary-cap-james-harden/

A lot of contracts are built this way, with these all star game performance incentives built in. Prediction: in addition to completely screwing some far worthier player out of money and acclaim, Jeremy Lin voted in this season will probably create more backlash against him as a player than his contract with Houston and his mediocre play on the court ever could.

 

You need to figure out what an example used to undercut absurd reasoning looks like. All the other players who are better than Jeremy Lin and who are far more deserving of all star recognition than he is average over 30 minutes a game, too. He compares highly unfavorably to players like LaMarcus Aldridge or Stephen Curry, two players whose all star status would be in jeopardy with the Lin phony enfranchisement.

 

I think he will be in the skills competition & I think he makes sense there. I predicted that for some time now.

There are two view points to the all star games. Some view it is about merit some view it is about popularity. Both perspectives have there strengths & weaknesses. Subscribe to whichever perspective you want but no reason to act like both arguments don't have a point. And yes the games are a way of incetivising but you would be silly to think that there aren't elements of politics in the All Star Selection. You don't think large agencies that represent multiple NBA players aren't influencing the vote a lot more than fans ever could? Because they definitely are that has been proven.

 

That's why I chose my own stupid, misleading advanced metric instead of yours. In this case, it was Tiago Splitter's win shares per 48 minutes, which is higher than those players. (BECAUSE HE IS AN ALL STAR OBVIOUSLY HURF DURF HURF). In so many words, I'm making fun of your logic.

If I were hand-picking stats to try to assign merit to my own outrageous claims about a player, I'd naturally do as you have done, and search high and low for a stat that overstated one player's contributions to his team, while I unethically pretended that it gave us added definition in our assessments instead of doing the opposite.

In any case, I've never seen such a dishonest use of statistics before. You may fool others but you don't fool me.

Your thread stinks.

 

This. Ranked 38 in PER out of 50 PGs.