Boston Celtics and Dallas Mavericks agree on Rajon Rondo trade

[rQUOTEr]Dallas Mavericks point guard Rajon Rondo will not play Monday night against the Minnesota Timberwolves due to a facial injury, league sources told ESPN.

Sources say that Rondo, who suffered the injury in the first quarter of Saturday night's win in Orlando, was scheduled to be evaluated extensively Sunday by the Mavericks' medical staff to establish a firm timetable on how long he'll be sidelined.

But Rondo has already been ruled out of the Mavericks' home game Monday night against the Timberwolves, who will be welcoming Ricky Rubio back to the lineup after his 42-game absence thanks to an ankle injury.

"It was a really bad collision," Mavericks center Tyson Chandler said of the shot Rondo took to the head just 98 seconds into Saturday's game. "I don't know what the prognosis is, but he is pretty beat up."

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story...llas-mavericks-play-vs-minnesota-timberwolves[/rQUOTEr]

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Rondo On/Off eff. numbers and Mavs during same time frame. In () league ranks since Dec. 20 (his debut) <a href="http://t.co/iAZtrO0qFp">pic.twitter.com/iAZtrO0qFp</a></p>&mdash; Bobby Karalla (@bobbykaralla) <a href="https://twitter.com/bobbykaralla/status/561958236929404929">February 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
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But their offensive rating was ~113 before the trade.

 

Yeah, showing that the Mavs are better with Rondo on court after the trade does not account for what they gave up to get him in the first place.

 

It's completely worthless and misses the point.

I still think the trade was worth it. Mavs were not going to compete for a championship with their opening season roster. The trade had a chance of making them better. So far it has not. Rondo is such a difficult guy even for a great coach like Carlisle.

Wouldn't surprise me if things started clicking for them after the extended ASB.

 

You'll have to point out where I said that the Mavs would "take off". I've said all along that they had to do this trade to give themselves a chance and that if things clicked, they could be a tough team in a competitive Western Conference. There are a lot of moving parts to basketball, so of course there are qualifiers involved. And they haven't "flopped" since the trade. They had the same record over the first 19 games after the trade that the Rockets did, and that included their 3 game slide and your tone suggests you don't think the Rockets have "flopped" since then.

Besides, saying that it won't result in a championship is far from a "man-up" move. There isn't a team out there that is favored over the field, so saying any one team won't win the title isn't going out on much of a limb.

I'm going to try and make this really simple for you. Don't be afraid to ask questions if you have trouble following along.

I said that Bird Rights are less valuable when it comes to a guy that will not be getting near max money, not that they are worthless.

Here is a thought experiment:

A team is interested in signing two free agents. One they have Bird Rights to and one they do not have Bird Rights to. One will earn about $8MM on the free market and the other will earn at/near max at about $18MM on the free market. In order to sign the player that they do not own the Bird Rights to, the team has to clear cap space, then sign the other using Bird Rights to go over the cap. Is it easier to clear $8MM in cap space or $18MM in cap space? The question should be rhetorical, but I have to make sure, now.

Here is reason #2 that Bird Rights are less valuable with players worth much less than max money.

The ability to offer a higher salary gets negated as every team can offer what the player is worth or even overspend by a margin in order to coax the player away from his most recent team. If a player is worth max money, then the most money he can get is from the contract a player can get from the team with his Bird Rights. No team can "overspend" if they are limited to max deals. If a player is realistically worth $8MM, the most money could come from a team willing to overspend on him. The money/years are no longer leverage.

Because the more pedestrian they are, they more replaceable they are. You do realize that teams don't just run around with a bunch of empty roster spots, right? And if we're talking 8 man rotations, Jae Crowder wasn't part of it. The next 3 up were Wright, Harris, and probably Richard Jefferson. JJ Barea and Al-Farouq Aminu also played in more games and more minutes than Crowder. But no, really, you had a great point

I don't know. They finished the 2011 season going 2-15 against Western Conference playoff teams and that season worked out well for them. *shrug*

Besides, in the same stretch that Dallas beat San Antonio and Memphis, then lost to the Clipper and Memphis, the Rockets beat Portland and Memphis, but lost twice to the Warriors and once to the Spurs. Rockets absolutely have done better against the West overall, but let's not pretend like that "gulf" to cross in to "contendership" [sic] is as wide as you think or that the Rockets are head and shoulders above any 3-7 seed in the West.

Is Morey just going to fart an extra roster spot and some cap space? Either the Rockets trade for him this season which, you know, requires exchanging players/picks, or (assuming Dragic opts out) they clear cap space and sign him in free-agency. Clearing cap space meaning, of course, that they let certain players on the roster go. Rosters are a fixed size and the cap is what it is. You don't just simply add a player.

You don't just "add" players. Somewhere along the line you have to clear roster and cap space.

I've called it a justified roll of the dice a number of times. That you refer to it as a "gamble" means I just might be getting through to you after all.

If the Lakers snag Rondo in free-agency, then the Mavs will have given up Bird Rights to Wright and a draft-pick for a shot at improving the 2014/15 roster while having the edge on retaining Rondo and lost out. There are no guarantees in this league. Best you can do is give yourself a chance.

It sure does deliver. Looking forward to your next lesson on free-agency. It ought to be great!

 

Bingo.

 

Rondo out 3 games with 2 fractures; will miss Minnesota, golden state, and Sacramento game

 

Again this record you keep talking about is padded by the useless fluff of Eastern teams, the reality is the Mavs just improved their record of WC playoff team wins from 1 to 2...do you honestly think wins against Orlando and Miami indicate the Mavs' chances against Memphis, GSW and of course the Rockets? Comparing the Mavs to the Rox based on overall record is a joke considering the Rox have dealt with major injuries to DHoward, Bev and TJones while Dallas has been relatively healthy, and again while Houston is hovering over 50% against WC playoff teams Dallas is only 2 wins out of how many games they had played. The reality is there is a large gap between the Rox and Dallas not like the gap between the 8th seed in the West vs the 8th seed in the East.

And I never said you said they were worthless, you already quoted my post and you still got it wrong? The point you're making ignores the fact that bird rights are all on the team keeping their player, not prying them away so I don't really get what you keep talking about with your hypothetical explanations. Bird rights either apply or don't apply to a player, your scenario of "would you rather have bird rights to X rather than Y" doesn't apply since the Mavs can have both guys with bird rights or not. Bird rights are vital to keep your players regardless if they make 5M or 20M a year, if you don't have them you can't go over the cap to retain your dude, simple as that. If the Mavs only have 2M capspace and the rate for BW is 2.1M and they didn't have bird rights, it's adios BW.

To be honest I don't really think we'll see eye-to-eye on this, that's because you keep hedging your posts with qualifiers while I am firmly on the "it's a bad trade" camp. So the reality is you keep hedging the fence and so you are never wrong, on one hand you said it's a good trade to do but on the other hand you say it'll only work IF X and Y and Z and the stars align. However BW and the pick are sure things, Rondo staying and the Mavs winning a ring if the cosmos will it so are not. Dallas has a window, but their window is not 1 year long they could have used their capspace and assets to make a better deal in the midseason or offseason instead of betting it all on Rondo. If they just chased him in the offseason and they really wanted him they could've traded the pick+roster spot for other assets and signed him in FA instead of trading their assets for him. To be honest this is a smaller version of the Melo trade to NYC in that respect, totally pointless move that cost Dallas more than it should've. Considering all Rondo added to Dallas was defense, don't you think they would've been better off just getting a guy like Bev? A good defender who can hit 3's at 40% would fit their roster way more than Rondo yet still provided the benefits Rondo brings now.


P.S. Rondo just broke his orbital socket or whatever, and prognosis is he's out for a month. Still a good trade for Rondo by the Mavs, right? Right?

 

I provided you with real data suggesting that the gap between the Rockets and Mavs (or all teams 3-7), since the Rondo trade, isn't a large one and it wasn't based on overall records. I even included a stat from the Mavs' 2011 season that suggests the record against West playoff teams might need to be taken with a small grain of salt. Choose to ignore it all you want. I hope the Rockets don't have the same superiority complex when it comes to the rest of the West.

No, the point I am making ABSOLUTELY acknowledges the fact that Bird Rights help a team retain their own players and also points out the fact that they are even more valuable for a player at/near max level or, conversely, less valuable for a player further away from max money.

If the Mavs don't have Rondo's Bird Rights, then they have to clear cap space to sign him next year. For a guy that is asking for max money, that is a LOT of cap space the Mavs would have to clear. Much more than if they wanted to sign Wright without his Bird Rights.

To put another way, if the Mavs expected/wanted to have both Rondo and Wright next season, it would be easier to get under the cap and sign Wright for $2MM (non-Bird), then go over the cap to sign Rondo at a max deal (Bird Rights), then it would be to get under the cap to sign Rondo at a max deal (non-Bird), then go over the cap to sign Wright at $2MM (Bird Rights).

You do understand this, right?

I said the Mavs couldn't win it with their pre-Rondo roster and that the Rondo trade gives them a chance. I can't be more realistic than that *shrug*.

How is Wright a "sure thing"? He is going to be a free-agent at the end of the season just like Rondo. The only thing "sure" about that team is that they weren't going to win a title. As for the pick, if you can give a list of Mavs draft picks that have been "valuable" in the past 15 years that convinces me they would have done something with the pick they traded, I'll change my tune. Bet you can't, though. The Mavs have been comically bad in the draft. That pick is nothing more than a trade chip.

Winning a ring is never a sure thing. Who says that it is?

They would have had to get under the cap by over $18MM in order to sign him. That wasn't/isn't going to happen. If it did, it would require dumping salaries via trades anyways or not re-signing players, which is the same net loss of players as the trade they made is. Why do you keep making it sound like the Mavs could just sign him in free agency at no cost to their roster?

Mavs got Rondo for pennies on the dollar in terms of personnel. Argue whether or not Rondo is a good fit all you want, but they Mavs gave up peanuts for him. I don't think they would be better off with Bev at all.

Yeah, how could a team be so foolish to trade for a guy, knowing full well that he was going to break his orbital socket in a freak injury .

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Rajon Rondo whipped Rick Carlisle in Connect 4. Rick: &quot;He got all excited afterward. I told him to learn how to make a shot.&quot;</p>&mdash; Tim MacMahon (@espn_macmahon) <a href="https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/565661015426469888">February 11, 2015</a></blockquote>
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One and done?

Stein says the Knicks and Lakers will bid more than the Mavs would to keep him.

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>NBA's Bottom Four in Points Per Play this season? Rondo (0.65), Lance (0.68), Perk (0.68) and MCW (0.71)</p>&mdash; Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/569860661477572608">February 23, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Lol more like 1/2 and done. I can see the Lakers and Knicks chasing both him and Love in the summer. Great trade for Dallas and Caves BTW, this is why you don't go all in, it backfires more often than it works out.

 

If one or both of the Knicks/Lakers are willing to give Rondo max and Dragic max, then Mark Cuban clearly misjudged Rondo's value while Morey accurately realized Dragic's absurd price tag and just threw Phoenix a rental-offer. I think max for both players is absurd, although less so with Dragic. But Rondo isn't worth even $10mil at this point.

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Isaiah Thomas has already made the same amount of free throws in Boston (12) as Rajon Rondo made all season with the Celtics.</p>&mdash; Brian Robb (@CelticsHub) <a href="https://twitter.com/CelticsHub/status/570264611368390657">February 24, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Rondo was clearly a move to increase variance as far as shaking up the roster for a title run. By acquiring Amar'e, they lessened the blow of losing Wright in the deal, but defensively, their interior depth still took a big hit. And, also, the overall deal could be viewed as a net negative if they are forced to overpay Rondo to keep him in Dallas. He's certainly not worth more than any of the PGs that were moved at the trade deadline, but he might end up getting paid like he is.

 

Rondo and Carlisle with words during a timeout...

Time for Cuban to give Rondo a cuddle?

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>We're always quick to say a guy traded to desirable team won't leave as free agent,but...Kevin Love, Goran Dragic, Rajon Rondo. We shall see</p>&mdash; Sam Amick (@sam_amick) <a href="https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/570424168631570433">February 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
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