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Boko Haram Islamists burn down whole town Baga, up to 2,000 people murdered

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Bodies ‘littered on the streets’ after Boko Haram attack on Baga
    Locals say insurgents began shooting indiscriminately in Nigerian town


    Nigerian Islamist militant group Boko Haram have attacked the northeastern town of Baga for the second time in a week, leaving bodies littering the streets, according to an official.
    Two locals said the Islamist insurgents began shooting indiscriminately and burning buildings on Tuesday evening in raids on the civilian population that carried on into Wednesday.
    More than 2,000 people are unaccounted for according to Musa Bukar, chairman of local government for the Kukawa district, which includes Baga.

    The dead are “littered on the streets and surrounding bushes”, said Mr Bukar, speaking from a camp in the city of Maiduguri that is sheltering people who have fled the attacks.
    On January 3rd, Boko Haram captured the headquarters of a multinational military force in Baga set up to combat the insurgency.
    “I escaped with my family in the car after seeing how Boko Haram was killing people ... I saw bodies in the street. Children and women, some were crying for help,” Mohamed Bukar told Reuters after fleeing to the state capital Maiduguri.
    The insurgency killed more than 10,000 people last year, according to a count by the Council on Foreign Relations in November.
    It is seen as the gravest threat to Nigeria, Africa’s biggest economy, and a headache for President Goodluck Jonathan ahead of an election on February 14th.

    Soldiers fled Baga over the weekend when the Sunni jihadist group overran a nearby army base.
    The district head of Baga, Abba Hassan, said on Thursday that at least 100 people were killed when the group first took over the town on the edge of Lake Chad. Abubakar Gulama, who escaped without his family to Monguno, 40 km (25 miles) away, said he crossed “many dead bodies on the ground” and that “the whole town was on fire”.
    Reuters TV footage showed scores of civilians waiting on sandy streets on the outskirts of Baga to catch buses out of town. Many carried the few possessions they had salvaged, such as bags of clothes and rolled up mattresses. In the last week, around 2,000 Nigerians and 500 Chadians have fled Boko Haram attacks in Chad’s Lake region, Chadian Prime Minister Kalzeubet Pahimi said on Wednesday.
    A source at a rights group in Maiduguri said some 10 women who snuck out of Baga a few days after the first attack had reported that their daughters aged 10-20 had been kidnapped. The militants have been waging an insurgency to establish an Islamic state for more than five years.
    The number and scale of attacks rose sharply in 2014 after the government imposed emergency rule on the three worst-hit states in 2013, and the administration of the president has met growing criticism for failing to quash it.
    The president defended his record on tackling Boko Haram at the launch of his election campaign and blamed opposition candidate Muhammadu Buhari for Nigeria’s ill-equipped army.
    Boko Haram has taken over or rendered ungovernable swathes of the northeast, especially Borno state where Baga is located.
    It has also launched attacks in Chad and Cameroon, while Chad has appealed for international aid to support the refugees coming across its border.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...ets-after-boko-haram-attack-on-baga-1.2059373

    --------------------------

    Cue the "this has nothing to do with Islam", "it's tribal", "poverty", "the USA caused this", "the Mossad must be behind this", "but crusades", "but witch burnings", "but Israel" crowd.
     
  2. Francis3422

    Francis3422 Member

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    I think we should create an Islamic state somewhere across seas and invite them all to go there, including the ones in the US.

    I don't come in this forum often but it is disturbing to me to see that there really is no Islamic faction that comes out strongly against these atrocities. The problem is with the religion itself. That is something that cannot really be said about most other religions. Very sad.
     
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  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The U.N. can create an Islamic Caliphate just like they did for Israel... but for the exact opposite reasons. The irony would overwhelming.
     
  4. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Why not just rebuilt the Ottoman Empire? And walk away...quickly.
     
  5. Major

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    What makes you think this? Groups like Boko Haram and ISIS are evidence of exactly the opposite. These groups are murdering fellow Muslims, who we can deduce are opposed to their thinking. The non-militant Muslims, by definition, don't have militaries, so they can't really fight back. They do speak out all the time, though we don't hear much of it because people saying "killing is bad!" isn't really compelling TV news. But the governments of Islamic countries like Iran or largely Muslim countries like Iraq, Syria, and Nigeria in this case (it's actually about 50/50) do fight these groups on a regular basis. Those groups don't support of most of the people - they conquer through fear instead.

    Terrorism exists because it's effective way to fight a superior opponent. ISIS is learning that governing is hell of a lot harder than blowing things up and killing people. But as long as your objective is just the latter, it's far more difficult to really stop, especially as technology continues to advance and makies it easier to kill more people with less effort. It took us 10 years to find one guy and we haven't come close to dismantling terrorist infrastructure. What exacfly can we realistically expect from a much poorer and less sophisticated country like Nigeria?
     
  6. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    The problem is not the religion. The problem is the culture.
     
  7. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Africa has cultural and societal issues that could be corrupted by just about any strong ideology.
     
  8. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    I saw on BBC that Cameroon launched air strikes against them. Paul Biya is taking a strong stand and trying to get the African Union involved.

    African leaders don't get much credit...or press.
     
  9. Pipe

    Pipe Contributing Member

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    I am sure someone published a cartoon that was offensive to them. We should be more sensitive and understanding.
     
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  10. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    The problem is that these groups are enacting what large factions of Muslims want. Not the majority in every country, but much more than a completely negligible minority. We are talking about hundreds of millions of Muslims who share the same goals as Boko Haram, ISIS and Al Qaeda, to a large extent, of literally following what they see as what Mohammed did and what the Quran literally says.

    The issue is that this stems from the religious ideology itself.

    By pretending that these terrorist groups are just isolated cases caused by poverty, lack of education, socio-cultural issues, etc. etc., you are disguising the actual origin of the problem.
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    If you wanted to make that argument with Hamas or Hezbollah or the Muslim Brotherhood, I could see the case. But it's simply not true with groups like ISIS. There's a reason they are having to terrorize every place they take over - it's the only way to get anyone to do what they want. They've taken over the towns in Iraq that should be most sympathetic to them and they can't keep control of anything without threats. They have virtually zero public support across the board.

    Here is the first (and possibly only) set of polls conducted in some ME countries on ISIS.

    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...t-about-islamic-state-have-surprising-results

    Now, however, a trio of new polls—the first ones of their kind—provides the hard data on which to make this judgment. The polls were conducted in September by a leading commercial survey firm in the Middle East, using face-to-face interviews by experienced local professionals. The sample was a random, geographic probability national sample of 1,000 respondents (nationals only, excluding expatriates or refugees) in each country, yielding a statistical margin of error of approximately 3 percent (visit this link for charts illustrating the data).

    The most striking as well as encouraging finding is that ISIS has almost no popular support in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon—even among Sunnis. Among Egyptians, a mere 3 percent express a favorable opinion of ISIS. In Saudi Arabia, the figure is slightly higher: 5 percent rate ISIS positively. In Lebanon, not a single Christian, Shiite, or Druze respondent viewed ISIS favorably; and even among Lebanon's Sunnis, that figure is almost equally low at 1 percent.


    ISIS and Boko are a different class of bad guys than any of the previous usual players in Islamic extremism. They aim their fire internally, which basically alienates everyone they need to support them. AQ is in its own class with low support, but it's higher than these guys because they focus their attacks outward and use the "rally around the flag" theory by creating a common enemy. As evil as they are, AQ doesn't generally go around massacring entire towns because they know that it will degrade the support they need to survive.

    (The political parties (MB, Hamas, etc) all have a more complex structure since they have relatively popular domestic social-program wings from which they finance their terror wings, so it's hard to know what people actually support and don't support with those groups).

    I know it's not a popular opinion, but I suspect ISIS is going to destroy itself at the end of the day. All these other groups have a model that at least theoretically makes some sense as to how they can garner support and built a base, whether its building schools or manipulating people's emotions or whatnot. ISIS, on the other hand, isn't designed in any sort of sustainable way - they rely on nothing but fear. They are going to cause all sorts of hell while they exist, but they are going to flame out and implode on their own. I think we're already starting to see some of that in Iraq. Boko, I have no idea. I don't know enough of their background to have a real sense of them specifically.
     
  12. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    There might be very little public support for ISIS because "they are taking it a little too far" in terms of their methods, but in terms of the goals like punishing blasphemy, apostasy, homosexuality by death penalty, subjugating women, basically all the stuff that makes up sharia law - many, many, many Muslims share the same goals. The issue is that political Islam and its claim to be an all-encompassing set of rules (religious and legal system, with sharia law) have a widespread following among Muslims and by design, any questioning of any part of it is dangerous and possibly life-threatening. That makes reform of it almost impossible.

    Yes, but that is not enough. ISIS might destroy itself, but Islam and Sharia law are the actual problem. Al Qaeda goes out of fashion and ISIS is more at the forefront. The Taliban are not in power, then Boko Haram pops up. Then you have those Islamist guys in the south of the Philippines and in parts of Indonesia.

    The root cause is the ideology of political Islam and sharia law and its claim to dominate the world and that everyone else must respect their rules.
     
  13. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    What a tragedy....just horrendous and sickening to think about.
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    What a horrible tragedy. If 2000 people died that's close to 9/11 level of tragedy. Boko Haram seems to be the most cruel and blood thirsty of these groups, possibly on track with ISIS.
     
  15. Phreak3

    Phreak3 Contributing Member

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    Very sickening.

    Still not clear, though, what is the reason for the attacks/massacre?
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Same as the reason for what ISIS does and what the terrorists in Paris just did:

    Islam (or their understanding of it)
     
  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Like Pakistan but with moar nukes.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    The religion sets the culture with it's inconsistent by laws and message.

    DD
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Yes, in the middle of an ocean and the nukes must only have a reach of 500 meters.
     
  20. s land balla

    s land balla Contributing Member

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    I can't believe how little this is being spoken about in the media.

    2,000 people! :eek::(
     

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