BOKI gets career night, 1 game after National TNT game

He left them when they were 10-9... not 1-18. He probably could have coached them to a .500 record, but he wanted more... and the players were no longer giving their all. He already said it was a mistake to think they'd turn it on once the season started... he should have left before training camp.

Would you rather have Mike Dunlavey? (who was the consensous other available guy besides JVG). Dude should quit the Clippers right now... he'd be doing them a favor (but he just got a 6 year extension... so why would he leave). We all know you love Adleman... who is guilty of going through the motions once he no longer has the talent to contend (as he did in Portland, and Sacramento).

If you're so good at seprating your love for the Rockets and your dissapointment for JVG (which is silly, since his stamp is ALL OVER this team)... you should be able to separate his situation with the Knicks and the situation he's in now.

Or I guess he'll always be a quitter in your mind.

 

I think Adelman is a good coach but just to be clear, his first year as a head coach the Blazers went to the Finals. Then two years later they went again with pretty much the same team. So he came into a really nice situation. Then he went seven playoff appearances without winning a series (with two bad years at Golden State in the middle), almost got to the finals with that Sac team, and then was out in the second round the next two years. So he certainly has not been outstanding in the playoffs overall. He has also had more talented teams than JVG.

It should also be pointed out that he often had pretty good defensive teams so he is not a D'Antoni or anything.

 

Yea, but he's not a Jerry Sloan, Poppovich, or even Rudy. He's had talented teams, but unable to take them all the way.

He's also had untalented teams and looked AWFUL... whereas JVG has looked better with teams that have far less talent.

I guess the only thing left is for JVG to get a talented team without injury, and see what he can do... the Rockets still need to be less injury prone, and a third guy who's better than Battier (ideally a dependable PF) to make that dream come true.

 

I do believe there is more to JVG's NYK exit than that. There was major turmoil 'inside' the management 'team' and there was the cloud of 9/11.

That exit was more than just basketball/coach. Much more.

 

BTW - I'd say the chance of JVG re-signing with Rox this summer is less than 50 - 50 (unless the team gets to the WCF, at least).

Frankly, I anticipate that JVG will replace Frank in NJ this summer. He'll find 'free agency' a wonderful thing.

 

No. He moved his family permanently to Houston in the offseason.

He's not going to take on a multi-year rebuilding project in NJ - which is moving to Brooklyn in a few years anyway.

 

Maybe... maybe not.

The bottom line is that it has nothing to do with the job he's doing in Houston... if he was ever at risk of being a lifetime "quitter", it would have taken place at the beginning of this year when T-mac's back looked terrible, and then Yao went out with a severe injury.

 

If I recall correctly, wasn't the whole secret negotiations with Phil Jackson going on around that time from even before the preceding season's playoffs? My memory fails me but I think the big story was that Dave Checketts had already begun preliminary negotiations with Phil, and most of NY loved Jeff so they saw his lameduck status as unjustified.

 

If Les wants him back, which he would be a fool not to after he wins this coach of the year, there's no chance he turns it down to go to NJ. You don't leave a big man in his prime. Especially when there's also a swingman in his prime.

 

Who would you rather have?
We know Adelman, but I fail to understand why. His teams have been stacked. "Blazermania" days he had Clyde at MVP form, Kersey, Porter, Buck Williams. In Sacto they had, by consensus, the most talented teams in the league with Webber, Bibby, Peja, Christie, and Vlade. One could say JVG hasn't done anything with the best 1-2 punch in the league, but they weren't anything near that in year 1, and this is only their second year together healthy, we'll see what they do.

For the life of me, I can't understand why you would want anyone else coaching this team. As Nick said, these teams have completely taken on his identity. They don't take games off, they rarely take plays off, they defend, and they are efficient. And they win. After the trades in '05, we had like the 2nd best win percentage in the league playing Gundy ball. People said he couldn't coach offense, but we were consistently scoring in the 120's.

I don't even need to go into this year. 'nuff said.

What about Yao? You were one of the most vocal advocates to take Yao out of the paint the past few years. You wanted him shooting jumpers. Look at him now. It took a while but they stuck with it and he's now the most dominant force in the game.

So who do you want coaching this team. Even though he's grown on you.

 

Cabbage,

Because while I agree that JVG is a good coach, I find his lack of adjustments, lack of creativity on offense and defense to be his biggest flaws...and I ultimately believe it will cost the Rockets in a playoff series.

And, I do not like the fact that he quit on his players in New York, you just don't leave a franchise because it is approaching bad times.

I would rather have Adleman or Rudy T, and I am sure there are a few others.....I just think JVG's myopic approach is not good enough and it will stunt the team in the playoffs.

And for the record, I was in favor of Yao playing at the high post....OCCASIONALLY to mix it up and add something else when teams were double and triple teaming him on the low block. I was NOT in favor of moving him out there permanently.

DD

 

Lack of creativity on offense and defense? So he basically has zero creativity on both sides of the ball? He didn't adjust the strategy so that the fronting defense doesn't work with Yao anymore? He didn't find ways to get T-mac better high percentage shots when his confidence and ability was at an all-time low this year? I know these are just more of your empiric data opinions, so they can't be right or wrong... but I still am baffled everytime I read them.

Again, this has been rehashed more than it should of (especially since it was FOUR freaking years ago). But, there was MUCH more there than simply a guy quitting on his team. And on top of it, you never answered whether or not you think it affected his current tenure with the Rockets... did he quit last year? Did he quit when it looked like T-mac's back would never get better, AND Yao was going out with a broken leg concurrently? Do you believe he'll quit tommorow? If it irks you so much, why do you continue to quote disciple from multiple coaches who have either become complacent (Dunlavey, Adleman), or flat-out quit when things went bad for them (Phil), or quit for personal reasons (Rudy).

Few others? Name them. And keep in mind the people that WERE actually available when Rudy was forced to step down (which you approved of). Mike Dunlavey? Larry Brown? How has JVG compared to the other FA coaches of that year?

But you were in the midst of people who had doubts whether or not Yao could ever succeed down there. The same people who were vehemently chastising JVG for supposedly taking away all the creativity and finnese out of Yao's game, and trying to turn him into another Shaq (which everybody said he shouldn't do).

And now that Yao has embraced the low-post game, and is dominating it at a level where no center has since Shaq's MVP days (2000).... no credit can be given at all? Not even a little? Even when they mix it up w/ the still unstoppable Yao+T-mac pick and roll, or Yao's post-ups on the high block?

I guess its still not a good enough mix... it never will be...

 

I am primarily talking about his inability to make changes in a game and or series when plan A is not working. IE Dallas 2 years ago, when they went small etc.

First, Rudy was fired he did not quit. 2nd, JVG quit on the Knicks when things were getting tough, I find it VERY VERY hard to respect what he says or does when he flat out left them in the lurch. It bugs me, it will always bug me, I don't like quitters. This is probably something that is not fair of me, but it is the way I feel.

I despise Larry Brown, and I freely admit I wanted Dunleavy at the time, I am on record as saying this, and also being against JVG.

Absolutly 100% false. I was always in favor of ADDING some high post to Yao Mings game as a counter to teams that double and triple him off the ball. I have been a HUGE Yao supporter since we got the number 1 draft pick.....still am.

Yao is awesome on the low block, but teams in a series will be able to take that away for a time, and the Rockets have no counter for when that happens, so as the game goes along and it is close, come the 4th quarter when teams inevitably double Yao and Tmac....there seems to be no other option on the floor for the Rockets.....thus I would like some high post Yao in the game with cutters and screeners on the baseline to take advantage of Yao's passing and height.

I am not sold on JVG as a championship coach, and the only time I WILL be is if he wins a championship, and I will happily admit I am wrong.

But, I believe that we will more than likely be first round and out again this year, is that good enough for you?

DD

 

Rudy may have been "fired" from the Rockets (although officially, he "stepped down"), but he certainly quit on the Lakers. Walked away from them when things got tough. Was it his physical health? His mental health? My guess is the latter -- he was not nearly as loved in LA as he'd been in Houston, despite the Lakers' decent record.

Sometimes things go sour and coaches walk away. JVG had stuck with the Knicks through thick and thin, and when he quit, he said he did so because he thought it was in the best interest of the TEAM. That certainly sounds like the way he thinks.

 

Fair enough point about LA fans and their take on Rudy......still doesn't change my mind about JVG and his quitting.

Best interest of the team? Come on, he knew that the team was about to cave in....it was the best interest of JVG.

DD

 

Once again... your opinion (which doesn't mean much).

And you never answered whether or not you fear he'll quit on the Rockets.... or how him leaving the Knicks has effected his coaching job of the Rockets.

But yea... we should have gotten Dunlavey... he really turned Elton into a perennial all-star (oh wait).

 

My opinion doesn't mean much? LOL - then yours means less than mine.



That is all any of this is...opinion.....

Tonight's loss to the Suns is a microcosm of what I don't like about JVG.

He leaves our two best perimeter defenders glued to the bench in Snyder and V-Span, while the Suns are running circles around our slow footed guards.

Does he adjust to Barbosa's penetration game? Nope...typical JVG.

And, as I said EARLIER in this VERY thread.....the reason I want a bit of HIGH post in the offense with Yao is to counteract the teams that double and triple team Yao off the ball, making the entry pass nearly impossible and basically shutting Yao down....

Which....right on cue...happened tonight....this is EXACTLY the type of defense the Rockets will see in the playoffs, on a nightly basis...teams will keep the middle packed in to stop Yao and to stop Tmac's penetration.

And our outside shooting is not good enough or consistent enough to compete.

Put Yao in the High post a bit and let him pass the ball to baseline cutters on off the ball screens......simple basketball....punish teams for paying so much attention to Yao.

But....does JVG do this? Does he adjust....nope...and what is the result? A 20 point loss....typical JVG.

Yep, he is a great coach....as to whether he would quit on the Rockets....I believe he would as soon as our superstar players are on the decline..once a quitter always a quitter....but again that is my opinion....

Which means nothing, I guess.



DD

 

As they should, Boki is playing very well.



DD

 

I have to give credit to DaDa on this one even though most of the board is against him. Boki is becoming a pretty good player, and we basically gave him away for a 40 year old David Wesley who barely even exists in the league anymore. I get the impression sometimes from Gundy that he is way too shortsighted and would trade a 60 win 07-08 for a 50 win 06-07.