Bohemian Grove - conservative summer camp or Satan worshippers?

Yeah, but Walter Cronkite?!

 

I thought actual satan worshipers are really atheists spoofing christians and christianity. They really don't even believe in satan at all. They just like making fun of christians and their rituals, and they like scaring the crap out of them.

 

I've heard that too. I had a friend in who when we were seniors, he had bought a copy of the Satanic Bible from a garage sale. It wasn't bount in human skin or anything, it was just a paperback written by some nut who grew up in a circus. He was basically an atheist, but unlike the average atheist he believed that morals were created by people as was God and God was an excuse to get people to follow the man made morals. This is all pretty fuzzy to me, but basically he thought people should do whatever they want without any guilt or anybody telling them what to do. Don't hold me to this, I didn't read, I'm going on what I remember talking to my friend about.

 

Jeff,

There is a difference between “misleading, bizarre, stupid” and outright slander. This thread title is extremely offensive to many Christians who read this. Calling elected leaders “Satan worshippers” is over the line. I find it wrong that you think an “insightful and intellegent [sic]” conversation can be had on these grounds, and I further find it wrong that you accuse me of turning this into a partisan debate. How can a thread with “conservative” and “Satan worshippers” in its title not already be partisan? It can’t.

Jeff, if you had a problem with the Match.com thread, then you should have said something at the time, or removed it. You did not do that. In fact, your wife actually prolonged the thread by posting in it. For the record, I did not indicate who’s “personal information” was contained in that thread, and the fact that the person himself had no complaint about the information further proves that I was not out of line by posting it. I do find it hypocritical that you think it is terrible to post “personal details” of a person (which were already on the internet to begin with)who I didn’t even name, yet you find no problem with posting a doctored picture of me at a strip club with a beer in my hand. In fact, your wife actually posted this. In fairness, it was removed by someone, but only after multiple requests. I also find it wrong that the poster in question insults me personally, using curse words, on a regular basis – this detail was left out of your criticism.

I admit to being abrasive, but I do not admit to insulting people personally. I criticize people’s viewpoints, and use catch phrases and harmless names (rookie, junior, clown, sport, simpleton, etc), which are most often in jest, yet I never use curse words and always maintain some degree of civility about myself. The same cannot be said of those who attack me with curse words. I have been called names far worse that any name I have ever called anyone else. 99% of personal insults that come my way are directed at me purely because someone does not share my political ideology. These are unprovoked and unnecessary, yet I let them go. In fact, in a thread a few days ago, I noticed that there were 3 pages of slander written about me by Batman Jones and MacBeth. Did I respond in a juvenile manner? No. I let it go because it was ridiculous.

That sets the record straight in a civil manner.

 

The picture is still up, I just checked. I think it's funny...and the thread you posted was also funny. Why are you so sensitive...you dish out, so you have to take the hits like a man as well.

Regarding the title of this thread, I am not sure it's a good choice. But it says OR...so it is not suggesting that conservatives are Satan worshippers...it's actually the contrary...if it's a conservative summer camp, they are not Satan worshippers. At least that's the way I understood it.

 

To take everything back down to a juvenile level for a bit, I find it ironic that you turn to attacking individual keyboarding skills in a backhanded fashion, when you yourself misspelled "desperate" approximately 87 times in the past week while recycling the same post.

Otherwise, carry on with the mock trial of yourself.

 

*OWNED*

 

I think it would be offensive to Satan worshippers.

 

Since I've been dragged into this, I'll answer the few points directed at me:

That's correct. I did post in the match.com thread. I felt a need to say nice things about the person in question and try and steer the thread away from the 3rd-grade slugfest it seemed destined to devolve into.

No, not in that thread you didn't. But in a subsequent thread, you gave out his actual match.com member name which lets people look up his profile, photo etc...

Of course, mine was actually a re-post, as the original photo of you first appeared in your match.com thread (and, to my knowledge, is still there). I'm not sure why you didn't report the first post of this photo to the moderators as well. Perhaps you realized it would seem hypocritical to cry foul when it came about as a reaction to your attempts to personally mock another poster.

EDIT: BTW, I have yet to figure out why that picture is so offensive to you anyway. You've made no secret about your enjoyment of and frequent trips to strip clubs -- I've seen your anecdotes of such visits in numerous threads. Your fondness for drinking is also well-documented here. I might assume you were shy about your appearance were it not for your many mentions of how "sexy" you are. So I'm not sure what your problem is with the photo.

That's all. Carry on gentlemen...

 

Trader_Texxx is right in one sense. I have probably overreacted to his annoying posts on more than one occasion. I completely admit to that and I should've been the better man that I am and kept my mouth shut and ignored him, like I did for a good couple of months recently.

However, the rest of his post is laughable. First, he tries to play conservative martyr and now he's crying foul over basically the same behavior he partakes in with nearly every post he subjects us to.

Re: the Match.com thread. That was purely an example of me being the better man. He started that thread for no other reason to embarass me, however, for a number of reasons, I took the high road. For one reason, I didn't want to give Trader_Texxx the satisfaction, and since I wasn't embarrased, it wasn't that hard to do. But for him to say what he did was OK because the person he was attempting to make a fool of was fine with it is flat out wrong.

Basically, if Trader_Texxx could simply come in here and debate the issues without name calling and the other abrasive antics he so obviously loves to perform, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. There are many on this board who I disagree with on a daily basis with whom I have no problem (and they have no problem with me). Many others feel the same way. I find it interesting that a lot of people, on all sides of the political spectrum, seem to have continuous problems with one poster.

 

Again, you were the ONLY person to complain. You can find it however you want, but the fact is that you are the only one making anything out of it.

Besides, people complain about threads in the GARM and very few of them are removed because there are only a couple of people who routinely complain and almost always take things way too personally.

I don't read the BBS Hangout all that much any longer so I didn't even know it existed. By the time I saw it, it was already so far gone, it was pointless to remove it.

I think RM95 explained his issue, so I'll deal with the personal information part.

Because you posted his profile, it was easy to determine who he was, see his photo, etc. Your point, whether you want to admit it or not, was to demean him through posting his profile, which you thought was funny or silly or whatever.

However, that doesn't make it ok to do it and it was clear from the response in the thread that pretty much everyone agreed with that.

Actually, your pic wasn't really supposed to be removed.

Why should we remove an image on your behest that you deemed too personal or demeaning when you had just attempted to blatantly make fun of another poster in a very personal way?

THAT is actually hypocritical which is why the decision was made to leave the photo up there. When it was removed from the post in question, it was done by another moderator who didn't have knowledge of the entire situation.

I could go through and pull up 100 posts where your civility could easily be called into question. Just because you don't call people assholes or mother****ers doesn't mean your posts aren't personally insulting.

You are just hiding behind semantics. Your catch phrases and "harmless names" are insulting. Period. Why do you think people insult you back? You think they just don't get your sense of humor? No, of course not. You are much smarter than that.

You want them to react. You enjoy provoking people into attacking you. It is all part of your psychological warfare you are so fond of describing. But, if you should realize that no one is going to protect or defend you - moderators included - if you persist in the same provocations. Who would want to?

Most of us figure that if you are tough enough to dish it out, you should be tough enough to take it.

Man, you never would have made it on this board a few years ago. That's why I find all this so amusing.

There were times on this board where you actually had to really battle to defend your position under some pretty harsh attacks. Most of those were long before the Hangout even existed, and they made this stuff look like play time in the preschool sandbox.

What I and many others, including the moderators, find so galling about your behavior is the fact that you really blast people and then when you get a response back from someone who decides to defend him/herself, you report it to the moderator or complain that the person isn't being civil. Now, you've got this "the liberals are running the conservatives off the board" complaint which is just another way to seek protection from other posters when you get treated uncivilly.

It is such passive agressive nonsense especially on an internet bulletin board where discussions can get heated and people, including you, can hide behind their anonymity.

Maybe we should have told you a long time ago that your behavior was often inappropriate. But, compared to some of the abrasive personalities we've had on this board over the years, you're a lightweight.

And, to be honest, it probably would've remained pretty much as is had you not started getting all offended and aghast when people responded to your insults with insults of their own.

Instead of hiding behind semantics, catch phrases, harmless name-calling and reported posts to the moderator, maybe you should shift your strategy from trying to provoke people to trying to have actual discussions with people in a civil, adultlike manner.

My guess is that you'd not only convince more people your opinion is valid, you'd end up with fewer insults hurled in your direction.

 

On the liberal vs. conservative issue, I want to address this.

There are plenty of people on both sides of the political aisle in this forum guilty of acting like complete and total asses. Insulting comments, rude remarks, knee-jerk reactions, it isn't just limited to Trader_Jorge.

IMO, it isn't the liberals or conservatives who are run off the board by these insults, it is the good posters.

There are plenty of conservatives I count among some of my best teachers on the board - mr paige, mad max, dc sports (damn, I wish he would still post)...the list goes on and on.

There are also those who opinions I agree with but whose posting styles I can't stand and there have been times in the past when I've said so openly.

My point is that it is becoming common to see a three-page thread crammed full of insults and accusations with one or two really thoughtful and interesting posts tucked in there that everyone ignores. I assume that this is because people enjoy a fight more than they enjoy a discussion, but it is a perfect illustration of the fact that respect is something that is greatly needed around here but, sadly, is in short supply.

 

I agree with everything you posted, Jeff (except that I didn't think posting the match.com profile was something bad, I thought it was funny).

I have to say that I am one of those sickos who kind of enjoy seeing a good fight on the bbs. That's why I kind of like seeing threads Trader_Jorge posts in even when he doesn't really address the issue (when he does, it usually has substance to it, especially as far as economic issues are concerned), because he provokes in a very clever way and there are some Pavlov-like reactions by the other side which are so predictable that it is just interesting to see how the thing unfolds (in that sense, I think T_J "owns" the other side... ).

Now, as I said, what I don't like is if someone provokes, but is super-sensitive when someone fires back. That's not right. Either be serious and discuss in a serious way, then you can demand to be treated respectfully. Or you go and provoke, which is fine, too (for me), but then one should not scream murder when the other side gives you some of your own medicine (unless it's really over the line, and I guess that's what the debate is about here).

 

Honest to God, I thought it would be a humorous discussion, with little currency to the Satan angle

Friendly, I'm sure that I and the vast majority of the posters took your post that way.

Relax, Jorge, and bigtexx who has taken to emulating him sometimes, don't really mean it about satanism/christian thing and being deeply hurt on behalf of Christians.

A favorite tactic of his is to feign intense shock due to having his lown feelings hurt or on behalf of other groups such as working class veterans or even combat soldiers( he's a chickenhawk) if he thinks it effective in derailing a particular thread.

 

I'm done for now (hopefully) with commenting on poster personality -- especially since Jeff does it better and with more authority.

But this thing of liberals running conservatives off the board or vice versa is pretty silly. When things look bad for one side or the other, it's natural that some people would lose a bit of their wind. johnheath's still around, still logs in, just doesn't post. I don't blame him. He, and other conservatives, will be back in force when the news turns especially bad for the left, which it will eventually. Blaming it on the behavior of one side or the other is ridiculous though, especially after the rhetoric from the right leading up to the Iraq war. Worth noting there that the anti-war posters stuck around through that, making pretty much the exact same points we continue to make against an incredible barrage of insults and hateful language. After many attempts to shout us down, the news turned bad for Bush and war supporters and the right fell virtually silent here. I don't blame you guys, but you sure as hell shouldn't blame us.

 

Well I do. I'm tired of being insulted when they couldn't think of anything better to say. I'm tired of being called a liar time and again without once being guilty of it, and when I time after time asked them to back it up, being ducked. I'm tired of those who called me a traitor, a liar, a moron, an idiot, a Saddam-lover, a commie, a person who enjoys the deaths of others, soldiers or Iraqis, so long as they prove a point I'm making, of having people say they hope I die, etc...and then having that same group now run away because there are 'so many' posters here who disagree with them politically. Please.

T_J has called me so many names I can't count, the most recent being when he called me a liar for...get this...re-telling my experience during the blackout. As usual he passed on explaining himself when I challenged him. And now he says I slandered him...give me a break. I have always tried to remain objective and polite with posters with whom I disagreed, but I admit, and already admitted, that T_J's weeks of insulting me and running got so under my nerves in conjunction with the others ducking the issues that I did insult him back, calling him an 'ass'. I wish I hadn't, but to those who claim that T_J is playing these mind games and laughing at our reactions to his antagonistic and illogical arguments, I ask why you see value in that, whow you would respond to posters repeatedly calling you a liar, etc. without grounds, and if T_J is in fact just having fun, why is he the poster who is running to mommy more than anyone for behaviour which he himself does as much or more than anyone?


Sounds like he takes it pretty seriously himself, and as I suspected only retreats to the 'just trying to goad you.' stuff when it becomes apparent that his arguments are going nowhere. And tattles when they get tired of being insulted by him and respond in kind. Ironic that among T_J's favorite phrases is 'EXPOSED'. I am done talking about him or to him until he quits this crap, or until he apologizes for or at least tries to back up his claims that I have lied.


I do agree that the presently absent pro-war posters will return when good news for their camp comes up, as it will. We'll see. Has anyone looked in the damned riverbed yet? If not, for God's sake, please do so.