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Body Cam Video released in March shooting of Chicago-area 13-year-old

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DVauthrin, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    I don't know why you keep saying that he had raised his hands before he turned around and you can see he did not have a gun.

    If he had shot him before he turned around I would have given him more leeway under the circumstances but he complied finally with the officers orders and he still shot him.
     
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  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    This not what happened he dropped the gun put his hands in the air and turned around.

    I think people need to watch the video again.
     
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  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    No, in places like inner city Chicago they would still run from them.

    The overwhelming majority of kids milling around the Garfield Park and Lawndale neighborhoods in Chicago after it goes dark are gang affiliated and have guns and many times drugs on them. The reason is that the shootings and gang violence overwhelmingly happens after the sun goes down in these areas. These areas are controlled by kids 13-19 years old. It is very dangerous. There are some block parties in these areas on the weekends, but those are also hot beds for drive or walk by shootings. Kids from one street over are on the look out to shoot kids from another street and vise versa. They have beefs on Tick Tock and Instagram and that leads to killings.

    The police in these areas have every right to be afraid, and the same is true for anyone that is male outside in these areas after dark being scared of the police.

    These areas are multi generation poverty traps. They were in Cabrini Green before (even more dangerous), but once those were torn down, the residents were moved en masse to areas like Garfield Park. Many of these kids are on drugs and/or selling drugs.

    It is a terrible place all the way around.
     
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  4. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member
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  5. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    My point is you have time to analyze the situation from watching video and seeing stills. If you were there in the moment, you would not have the time to know Toledo's intentions.
    He had to reach for the weapon before dropping it and turning around. This motion takes less than half a second. Can you react quick enough to determine if Toledo is pointing the weapon back at you or if he's surrendering?
     
  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    I am analyzing it from real time from the body cam of the cop so you know the same thing the cop is seeing.

    If he had been shot while reaching for the gun I would not have an issue but he did not the entire motion was longer than a half a second I have no idea why you keep saying that, if you watch the video you can see him dropping the gun stopping putting his hands in the air and turning around how do you drop a gun against a fence and turn around while raising your hands on the other side of the fence in half a second?
     
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I am not someone to defend the Chicago PD and I am not saying what the proper outcomes should be in this case.

    What I can tell you is that almost all of these events happen when it is dark, typically down dark alleys with close buildings and fencing. The police often are not as familiar with the area as the people that they are chasing, and usually there are side alleys where there are fears of being ambushed.

    Being a police officer in these areas is almost as bad as living in these neighborhoods.
     
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    No, but he just had a bad day.
     
  9. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member
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    im talking about the name his gang and friends called him. its in one of the articles posted.

    what are you talking about? was that his rap name? based on the article i read its the name his friends and fellow gang members called him.

    yes, he was ****ing 13 years old and was known as "lil homicide", was out at 2am with a 21 year old who just shot at a car and was running from the cops down a dark alley with a pistol.

    i dont understand what youre asking me here.

    youre arguing semantics with the "split second" comment. if you want to be specific, it was about two seconds from when he stopped and started to turn to when the cop fired his gun. ive watched the video a half dozen times and the kid does a half turn and you cant see his right side. he could have been holding a gun with that hand and again, you dont fully see it till the cop is firing his gun.

    in that "split second" its easy to understand why the cop fired their gun and i dont blame them at all.

    to the officers credit, it appears that they did everything they could to save that kids life.
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Also as a side note, the gun violence is a lot worse than people realize. All the shootings take place near Stroger Hospital. The ER at Stroger is the best in the world at treating gun shot victims because of the amount of experience the hospital gets. They have gotten to the point where they save 80-90% of the kids shot when it used to be 50%. Also, that doesn't count the shootings and deaths on federal expressways adjacent to these neighborhoods. Every weekend multiple people are shot and killed on the expressway's in Chicago and it isn't counted in the official death toll because they are federal lands.

    Consider that last Father's Day weekend, in this small geographic area of Chicago there were 96 people shot by gunfire but only 14 died because of the brilliance of the Stroger hospital. The amount of shots fired was likely 2-3 times that number easily. So over a weekend, there were likely 200-300 episodes of shots fired, nearly 100 people shot and over 14 dead..... all in an area that is maybe 3-4 miles long.
     
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
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    My HPD friend said his worst "beats" were the rich areas, because those people don't listen and argue with everything - maybe you watch too many Jake Gylennhall cop movies? He said the most dangerous area (at the time) was the zone that included the Harwin area. Everyone had guns there supposedly.
     
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  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I was a federal prosecutor in Chicago.... so no I didn't watch too many Gylennhall movies.

    Also, Chicago and Houston are very different. In Houston the crime is more spread out, in Chicago it is overwhelmingly from 2-3 different neighborhoods.

    The fear in the wealthier areas of Chicago is vastly lower than what you will find in an area like Garfield Park.
     
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  13. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member
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    ...lived in Kingwood with my ex-wife and son about 15 years ago...

    ...everybody (especially the cops) called the place "Kinghood"...(I always thought that was kind of a cute thing for the cops to do...made me feel right at home)...

    ...had an officer come to my front door once, when something happened someplace and my son was mentioned by everybody there as being present...
    ...(which made sense, since he was probably the only black kid in that particular neighborhood, which made him about as discernible as a turd in a punchbowl...and we should have nicknamed the boy "Christmas" because nobody was a bigger ham than him)...

    ...the officer laid out what was going on (and I'll never forget how we talked to one another - like he was just finding information and I was not worried in the slightest about how or what I needed to say or how I needed to say it...almost like two grown adults or something)...

    ...and surprise of surprises, he told me that the only reason he bothered to come tell me about what the trouble was (some fight or something, I believe), is that he knew my son had nothing at all to do with any of it. He even said to me that the only reason why so many people mentioned him being in the area was that he was the black kid and everybody knew him...

    ...The officer also told me that he knew the kid who'd caused the trouble...always caused some sort of mess...parents and grandparents always cleaned it up for him...

    ...just weird. And that was just the one time that sticks out the most in my memory.

    I didn't mention that the officer was white, did I?;)
     
    #73 mdrowe00, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
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    That's an interesting case study to support the idea that cops should police the same neighborhoods long-term to build a sense of community and understanding. I assure you, most HPD officers don't know **** about any specific kids on their beats.
     
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  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
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    You watched that movie though. Don't lie.
     
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  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    My question is why are you judging a 13 year old by a nickname do you do the same with rappers?

    I have no idea why you are focusing on his nickname so much like that's how you judge a 13 year old, do ypu think the cop knew his nickname, what difference does this incident have on what he was called?

    There was no split second, it's not semantics the officer gave a command and he raised his hands and turned around like he said.

    His right hand was over his head with no gun the gun was on the other side of the fence.

    You can see his hand over his head before he turns around I have no idea what you think you saw.
     
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  17. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    I want to be clear I am not 100% blaming this cop, this is actually the heat of the moment but I am pushing back on him having a gun at the time he was shot and him not having his hands over his head when he was shot.

    I am really pushing back on him being nicknamed Lil Homicide as having anything at all to do with this.
     
    #77 jiggyfly, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  18. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    Are you making an assumption of what you think I am saying based on wording on one of my sentences? I went back and looked through and did not say what you are claiming.

    All I am saying is that I don’t know what the cop saw that made him decide to shoot. That’s all.

    I do recognize that cops are humans and can make mistakes. The other lady cop that made a mistake and grabbed her taser, that type of mistakes warrants criminal conviction. In this particular case, I don’t believe if the cop truly made a mistake, that he deserves to be criminally charged, at least from just watching this video. Obviously, don’t know the whole story yet so my opinion can change on this one.
     
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  19. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Yeah, it was harrowing and changed my perspective on things for sure.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    Police said Larry McFarland, 75, drove up to the sidewalk where a group of about 20 people were gathered earlier in the evening at the police station to protest police. The group was protesting the death of a 13-year-old boy by a Chicago police officer last month after authorities released body camera footage of the shooting on Thursday.

    McFarland stepped out of his vehicle with the shotgun, pointed the shotgun at the crowd and fired it into the air. Salem Police said no one was injured.

    Salem Police officers who were observing the protest approached McFarland after the shot and ordered him to drop his weapon. He refused, got in his truck and left.
    https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...-police-department-during-protest/7249938002/
     
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