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Body Cam Video released in March shooting of Chicago-area 13-year-old

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DVauthrin, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I am not disagreeing with you that gun violence in the USA is unacceptable.

    I am only saying that the inner city of Chicago is unique. I was a federal prosecutor there and it is hell on earth.

    It is segregated and 99% black. When I was a prosecutor there the area was controlled by very strong black gangs with middle aged men in charge of the drug trade and violence. Over a 20 year span the government was able to arrest all of the top gang leaders over and over again, to the point that there are very very few black men over 22 that live in these areas. All of the black men are either dead from gang violence, in prison for 50-100 year terms or a few that either were elite athletes or were gifted academically left the area. The area is now all moms and grandmas that work 50+ hours a week and take the train into wealthier areas to work and kids between 2 and 19. The homes are all government assisted (and some of them are new and fairly nice) and the kids spend their whole life's on the same street and bond with the other children on those same streets from when they are 2 until they end up dead or in prison by 18-19. Since all of the kids start going to jail between 13-15, a whole new wave "runs" the neighborhoods when they are only 13-19 years old. They sell dope to the white kids from the suburbs to pay for their lifestyle which is sleeping all day usually and then at night partying and hanging out together and shooting at kids from a street over..... the kids are often raised by their older siblings if at all. Kids that even want to do well in school cannot, because the schools have kids from several neighborhoods so there are 3-4 gangs and people are not targeted for being rival gang members, but just living on that street is enough.

    Being from this area of Chicago is about as bleak as it gets in the USA. There are worse areas in Europe and I would even argue in Canada in some ways.... but people just do not realize how terrible inner city Chicago.

    As far as moving away, the people that live there are in government assisted housing so they lack the means to leave, plus they often have all their family in the same area and in general the family ties in the black community are very important.

    Having said that, those with the means do leave.
     
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  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    That is just straight up false you can see him dropping the gun in several videos.

    How do you tell someone to turn around with your hands up and they comply and you still shoot them, its plain as day his hands were up before he turned around.

    I have no idea who they think that is fooling when the video shows otherwise.
     
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  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    He was turning toward the officer with a gun in his hand, he had already dropped the gun and his hands were clearly over his head without a weapon.

    Now I agree it was tough situation for a cop but he was not turning while holding a firearm.
     
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  4. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    What needs to be taught is the cops on how to treat all people the same and maybe more people won't run from them.
     
  5. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member
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    IMO, cop was justified in shooting "lil homicide". and with a name like that can we assume that 13 year old kid was a killer, or at least an aspiring killer?

    "lili homicide" made that quick spin to turn-around and face the officer...if he had not done that i think it would be different, but in that split second its hard to second guess the actions of the cop when they fired.

    the person who should be held accountable for this was the 21 year old gangster who shot at a car and then handed "lil homicide" the gun.

    2nd time in a week that i find myself defending cops - crazy times!

    george floyd was murdered. dante wright and "lil homicide" are different situations.
     
  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    I'm just saying, if it was me I would take that welfare check or weekly pay check, buy bus tickets for myself and my kids, and go somewhere safer to live. If I had to stay in a church or shelter until I got a job I would do that. I understand family and community, but there comes a point where you have to realize that raising your kids in a safer environment is worth leaving everything you have on a bus to somewhere else, away from all the gangs and drug dealers on every corner.
     
    #46 deb4rockets, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  7. VanityHalfBlack

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    Don't run from the cops!!! You tough enough running around the streets, you can handle a little juvee time.
     
  8. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    You're being an armchair cop after getting to analyze video footage. Did you see the gun when you initially watched the video? If you didn't, I doubt you'd be able to tell Toledo had dropped the weapon when he turned towards the officer.
     
  9. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    I know I’ve already said this once in this thread, but this is an incredibly tough situation. The kid was running with a gun. I absolutely hate that he had to die, but he decided to run with a ****ing gun while the cop was chasing him. Did the cop even see when the kid got rid of the gun??? I watched the video and the first time I didn’t even realize there was a gun until they identified it at the end. They were in a dark alley, running, adrenaline is running, who knows what the **** the kid is thinking, who knows what the cop is thinking. What is the right situation.

    The cop could of made an incorrect command, sure, but he was in a pressure situation, probably thinking life and death, because this was definitely one of those situations, and I totally understand why he made the wrong statement, put himself in a vulnerable position where he had no option but to shoot. Ugh.

    We definitely have issues in this country regarding cop violence and we need to address those issues accordingly. This, in my opinion, is not a case that you can really use for that cause. I’m already seeing my liberal friends on Facebook post that justice needs to be served for this kid. However, they are totally looking at the wrong issue. I know many attempt to be pragmatic in the gun debate, but you know what, **** that, this is a direct issue of having so many ****ing guns in this country. The fact that Adam could get his hands on a gun at the age of 13 is ridiculous. Granted, he got it illegally, but there is no ****ing shortage of guns in this country. I really really wish we could be as restrictive as they are in Australia or Japan.

    I think someone mentioned it recently how we are focusing our attention on the incorrect type of gun. Every time there is a mass shooting we are talking about limiting ARs, but instead we really should focus that energy on handguns. It seems like statistics support that the majority of murders with guns is from handguns.
     
  10. rockbox

    rockbox Contributing Member

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    If we really wanted gun control to make a difference in gun violence, we would. I'm not saying I for banning handguns but it would make more effective than banning AR rifles.

    Personally, I think we should make the people they get the guns from criminally and civilly liable. There is literally almost no legal liability for people to supply guns to criminals and kids.
     
  11. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Basically what people in this thread are saying is he was dead the second he started running. If that is the case then change the rules. If you are gangbanger then you get the death penalty. He had thrown away the gun and was raising his hands. At that point the cops can't just shoot him.
     
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  12. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    Did the cop see him get rid of the gun? I don't know if we will ever get the answer to that question.
     
  13. NotInMyHouse

    NotInMyHouse Contributing Member

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    The temperature of the country needs to cool off and Republicans can help achieve this while also protecting the Thin Blue Line by supporting stricter gun control laws and background checks. Dems need to be involved here, too, and break the liberal fever over assault rifles. Gun violence is out of control and it goes beyond access to an AR-15.
     
  14. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    The problem is the officer gave Toledo no time to comply with his direct order before firing. It was “Show me your ****ing hands,” and the officer fires his weapon almost immediately after giving the command. Also, if the officer saw the gun in plain sight as Toledo was running away from him, his first command should have been “drop the gun.” Then, he can tell Toledo to either put his hands behind his back or to show them to him. Why would an officer tell a suspect that has a weapon to show his or her hands before ensuring they are no longer holding said weapon? That makes no sense.

    I doubt the officer is punished either, but, if you are going to give a suspect a direct order, you should have to give him or her a reasonable opportunity to comply before firing your weapon. That did not happen in this situation.
     
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  15. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    I don't disagree with you, but at the end of the day, we are humans and mistakes were possibly made.

    The golden question, does this mistake warrant any actual discipline against the cop. My current stance is, no it does not. It's a tragic event and I absolutely hate it for the victim and for the cop as well.

    You guys know my stance against cops on this forum and I certainly believe reform is needed, but I personally don't know how we can scrutinize the cop based on the situation he was in. Maybe if more video is released and we can get more info, I'm willing to re-think my opinion.
     
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  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
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    Dogs too. Cops will jump into your backyard and shoot your dog when it charges. Or barks. Or exists. Post those numbers. Not that dogs are more important than humans, but... they're obviously a trigger happy group of people.
     
  17. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    "Show me your hands" is a better first command than "drop the gun". If a suspect raises their hands, they are less of a threat. If the command is to drop the gun, then the officer has to determine if the suspect will drop the gun or use it against them.

    Toledo made a series of mistakes that made anybody believe he was a lethal threat. First was to be a gangbanger and hang out with this guy that day. Then to hold onto the gun when it was the other guy who initially fired the shots. Then he ran from the officer, then he reached for the gun first and turned around. He was shot because of all those mistakes.
     
  18. Sanctity

    Sanctity Member

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    Houston is a joyous celebration. How dare you speaketh of it in such betrayal....
     
  19. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    What are you talking about?

    Do you think every rap name means that's what they are aspiring to.

    He was ****ing 13 years old, do you think what might be called now would have no bearing moving forward?

    This was not a split second he had already tossed the gun on the ground and had lifted his hands over his head before he turned around.

    I will say that in this instance I can give the cop some leeway considering shots had been fired but what his nickname was has no bearing and its false that this was split second you can clearly see his hands over his head before he turns around.

    The spin was not even that quick.
     
  20. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    I am not armchairing anything the statement said he was turning around with a gun in his hand and that was false.

    I did not see the gun initially because it was not in his hands when his hands were raised, so what is your point?

    Yes I could tell he dropped the gun because you can see both of his hands free over his head.
     
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