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Body Cam Video released in March shooting of Chicago-area 13-year-old

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DVauthrin, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    I agree except for the last sentence. Sneaking out in a safe residential neighborhood isn't even as safe now days, compared to when I was a teen. Being out at 2AM in the city streets where murders occur every night like Chicago or Houston is just not a good thing for any 13 year old.
     
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  2. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Don't teach that explanation to your kids. Running from cops is never the smart thing to do.
     
  3. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    I hate to say it, but even though the kid complied, he did have a ****ing gun on him. In this particular case that split second can mean life and death for the cop. What if the kid didn't get rid of the gun and instead decides to shoot.

    Ugh. I ****ing hate guns and wish they would get rid of them in this country.

    I understand this is an individual of color, I don't know what else to say though. I don't like cops killing individuals but how the **** do you handle this. I guess I'd like to see the entire scene play out until I really have my opinion fully developed but I am not mad at the cop or the kid, I am mad at this ****ing gun crazy society and how easy it is for anyone to get their hands on a weapon.
     
  4. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I think the cop should have told the guy to drop his weapon first or at least warned him that he has his gun trained on him and he will open fire and then made it audibly clear that he was calling backup so that the kid understood the game was over and he was caught.

    I don't know, it's a sad story all around. He had a gun and so it really is hard to blame the officer and I don't think it's particularly fair to point out other instances where cops let armed white citizens go.
     
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  5. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    I have been critical of the police many many times. But, I don’t think this cop should be charged with anything. When you have a gun in your hand, and it’s dark outside, and you are fleeing from the police. You are putting that police officer in a very difficult situation. Don’t make a cop have to make a split second decision in the middle of the night like this.

    A 13 year old running around the streets of Chicago at 2am with a gun in hand. How is that NOT going to turn out bad for someone?

    There are so many guns on the street, some of these cities are like a war zone. Why would anyone want to be a cop? The job seems almost impossible.

    And, once again. Many times I am critical of the actions of police officers. Chauvin and this female cop who can’t tell the difference between her hand gun and her taser both deserve to do jail time. But, this cop having to make a split second decision in the middle of the night doesn’t deserve to go to jail.
     
  6. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    Turning towards the officer while holding a firearm is a threatening motion. I think Toledo could've thrown the weapon as he intended, held his hands up but not turn towards the officer, the officer wouldn't have shot.
     
  7. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Me too!

    I agree 100%. America is better than Mexico and Central and South America when it comes to violent gun deaths, but it's certainly got a problem compared to most of the world with so many homicides by guns. It's getting worse and worse each year, and at this rate we are gonna end up as one of the most dangerous countries to live in because of so many guns. Gangs, crazies, criminals, and people who can't even keep them safe and secure from from their own kids. Start by banning handguns! We need change.
    _117886354_gun_related_crimes2_640-nc.png
    Japan has the fewest gun deaths per year in the world. Japan has some of the strictest gun laws in the world and experiences 100 or fewer gun deaths per year in a population of over 127 million and a gun death rate of .06 deaths per 100,000 people. For Japanese citizens to purchase a gun, they must attend an all-day class, pass a written exam, and complete a shooting range test, scoring at least 95% accuracy. Candidates will also receive a mental health evaluation, performed at a hospital, and will have a comprehensive background check done by the government. Only shotguns and rifles can be purchased. The class and exam must be retaken every three years.
     
    #27 deb4rockets, Apr 15, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  8. dumbartonbass

    dumbartonbass Contributing Member
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    What’s surprising is the amount of outright “Chicago PD lied, he clearly did not have a gun on him” takes on some particular Twitter feeds. The screenshots sure do look like he’s holding a gun and a gun was found along the fence line. Agreed with @ElPigto that this is just a sad situation all around and with @Newlin that this particular case seems like the cop acted in accordance with training.

    For all of the times that those of us who’ve been critical of the police for rushing to use deadly force because a suspect “might have had a gun,” this is an instance where a fleeing suspect did have a gun. I can see arguments that the cop shot too quickly after telling the kid to drop it and put his hands up; it does seem very fast to my uninformed eye. But, for once, I’d actually be inclined to listen to police officers who tell me that I have no idea what it’s like in that moment. I just don’t know.
     
    #28 dumbartonbass, Apr 15, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    1. This is a small part of America where a lot of damage is done.
    2. Kids in Chicago run from the cops out of fear, instinct and because they usually get away. Substance abuse plays a part as well.
    3. The part of Chicago where this took place is controlled by teenagers, and they often sleep during the day and come out at night. Almost all the young and middle aged men are dead, in prison or moved away. Most don’t have involved fathers and their mothers typically work full time.

    Chicago is unique. These areas of Chicago are far far far worse than anything that exists in Houston. The number of murders In these small areas are underreported because they occur on federal land so they are not counted by the city.
     
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  10. NotInMyHouse

    NotInMyHouse Contributing Member

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    Republican politicians should curb all of this violence with gun control laws. Cops will be and feel safer making them less trigger-happy. A win for everyone.
     
  11. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    It isn't really that much more dangerous than other countries, unless you are involved in gang violence. Most of the gun crime is bangers shooting at other bangers. If you stay out of 40 to 50 neighborhoods around the country in the middle of the night, your chances of being involved in any of this gun violence goes way down. There are outliers of course, as with any data set, where you have your MGM Grand or Pulse nightclub or Sandy Hook. For the most part, if you are an ordinary, law abiding citizen that goes to work, goes out to dinner, goes to the movies, plays minigolf, etc. you are never going to be involved in these issues.
     
  12. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room bucko
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    Deadly mistake by the police officer, but given the circumstances its probably not going to result in any punishment, criminal or otherwise. Toledo did, just a fraction of a second earlier, have a visible pistol. Toledo, in the space of a single second, tossed the weapon, turned toward the officer, and raised his hands. Officer made a decision in that second, it turned out to be the wrong one.

    Nothing will come of this. I'm personally on the fence about it, but unlike the Potter situation, I'm leaning in the direction of reasonable error here.

    What bothers me the most is that the officer clearly should have given him different directions if he was that afraid the suspect might harm him. "Show me your hands" clearly wasn't the right thing to say since the suspect did that and the officer fired anyway. He should have told him to get on the ground or something else.
     
    #32 DonnyMost, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  13. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room bucko
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    The first 24 hours this story broke social media was littered with misinformation and outright deceptive editing of the video/photos to make it appear as though Toledo was unarmed. This **** pisses me off, because it makes it harder to identify the actual misconduct and bad cops when you've got witch hunts being started.
     
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  14. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Regardless, the US has a serious gun problem. It's not just in places like Chicago where people are killed by guns, even though it's much more dangerous there. Honesty, if I was poor I would take my kids on a bus and get the hell out of places like Chicago, Houston, LA, New York, or New Orleans and go live in a shelter someone safer until I could find a job.

    Houston homicides up 44% from 2020’s already significant rise.

    With more than 400 homicides, last year’s numbers were the highest in at least 15 years, possibly the highest since the 1980s.

    https://www.click2houston.com/news/...es-up-44-from-2020s-already-significant-rise/

    That is simply not true. Gun violence in this country is terrible, compared to most countries. People die from gun deaths all over this country and it's not just gangs. There is no reason for handguns in this country.
     
    #34 deb4rockets, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  15. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Ordinary law abiding citizens can still be killed by guns. Their children can be killed by guns when they get their hands on a weapon not properly stored. Ordinary citizens are shot in domestic disputes. Ordinary citizens can be robbed at gunpoint in home invasions. Ordinary citizens can shoot someone by accident by simple negligence. Ordinary citizens can be shot by some crazy in road rage. The list goes on.
     
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  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    If you look at the number of mass shootings that take place on essentially daily basis it's not comparable to other countries. While yes for most people the chance of getting shot is low but so is the chance of getting hit by a drunk driver, especially if you don't drive at night or early mornings on the weekends. That doesn't mean we don't take actions to address drunk driving
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    From what I've seen so far this is a really hard case to determine. Unlike many other cases this is truly a split second decision in a situation where shots were fired already.
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I also think why so many people are willing to think the worse of this situation and buy into misinformation is because we've see so many situations where LEO kill or severely injure people under very problematic circumstances but are not held accountable. This is why I believe the most important reform is to address the leeway and different standard that LEO are treated in the justice system. If more people believe that LEO will be held accountable then there will be more faith overall in the system.

    It will be better even for LEO and will make their job safer if they are held to higher standards. The less they are held to account the more that blame is just shifted to victims even in situations as obvious as the killing of Daunte Wright the less trust there will be in LEO.
     
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  19. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    I'm talking homicides related to guns. This country is terrible compared to most countries in the world per capita. Drunk driving is another issue. We have a terrible problem there too. People with multiple drunk driving convictions, people driving from bars, clubs, parties, etc.. The laws aren't strict enough in my eyes.
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I agree. I might've phrased that better but "not comparable" I meant to say because the amount of gun deaths and injuries in this country is far worse than other countries.

    My point about drunk driving was that why any car trip there is a very low chance of getting hit by a drunk driver doesn't mean we don't do anything. That was to address the idea that there is low chance of any particular American getting shot.
     
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