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Body Cam Video released in March shooting of Chicago-area 13-year-old

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DVauthrin, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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  2. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Another day in America. Sad in so many ways. Why do people run from cops? Why are 13 year olds out at 2 AM on the streets? Why was he shot? If he really did have a gun prior to that, why? Not much good happens at 2 AM on city streets, and especially in cities like Chicago and Houston.
     
  3. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Heartbreaking
     
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  4. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    Still image of him with the gun.

    [​IMG]

    I watched the family attorney's press conference. She's BSing that he never had a gun.
     
  5. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Well, that picture sure shows otherwise. 13 year olds with handguns is just sad. Honestly, I wish they would ban handguns in America.
     
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  6. Cokebabies

    Cokebabies Contributing Member

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    You forgot "Why are US cops so trigger happy, especially against people of color?".

    In two weeks, police in Chicago, Honolulu, and Minneapolis have shot and killed:

    Adam Toledo, 13
    Travon Chadwell, 18
    Anthony Alvarez, 22
    Iremamber Sykap, 16
    Daunte Wright, 20

    All Black and brown boys.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    It mostly comes down to 2 things, imo

    The sheer number of guns / gun culture, and poverty


    The cops are constantly terrified they are about to be gunned down because we live in a country that has an insane number of guns, a completely reckless gun culture, and very high levels of poverty.
     
  8. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    Toledo did have a gun, but when the officer says “Show me your ****ing hands,” Toledo immediately complies, and the body cam video shows he is no longer holding the weapon at the point the officer fires at him. The officer hardly gave him much chance to show his hands before firing, either.
     
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  9. Cokebabies

    Cokebabies Contributing Member

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    Both those things are factors and there's also institutionalized racism in that some police officers view minorities as threats right off the bat and mentally their first option is physical/lethal force instead of de-escalation, whereas white suspects get the benefit of the doubt (ex. Kyle Rittenhouse, the DC attackers) and have a super long leash with what they can do before a police officer draws their weapon. The broken system also lacks accountability so such behavior is tolerated, if not encouraged. It's not a few bad apples, the whole tree is rotten.
     
  10. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    To your point about white suspects getting more leniency, here’s a video of a 61-year-old white man yesterday in Minnesota dragging a police officer while also hitting him with a hammer. As the tweet says, he was neither tased nor shot by police.



    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...hits-him-with-hammer-after-face-mask-dispute/
     
  11. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    These are a lot of questions that frankly don't have any merit in this situation.

    13 year olds have been sneaking out at night forever and then running from cops forever but they were not getting shot by cops.

    I have had plenty of good things happen after 2 AM on city streets in both Houston and Chicago.
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    Everything is a blurry mess, but it paints the picture of him throwing the evidence before getting shot.

    I don't understand how it's ok for poor kids to be out at 3am on a school day, but cops are in some form to be blamed for this?

    The gun was for protection?
     
  13. primtim24

    primtim24 Contributing Member

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    The United States relative to the other "wealthy countries on your list" have a much higher overall homicide rate as well. It seems as if police "killing civilians" seems to directly relate to the rate of crime committed. Which just tells me that despite what we may read or hear from other people, our cops aren't much worse (definitely not better) than other countries. We just have more opportunities for them compared to other countries.

    According to a totally different website, I got these murder rates, which correlate EXACTLY to the posted cop killing murder rate.

    US - 5.35 Homicides/100k people
    Canada - 1.68/100k people
    Australia - .94/100k people
    The Netherlands - .55/100k people

    If interested: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-crime-rates-by-country
     
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  14. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    The cop is responding to shots fired. He's chasing a suspect that is running with a gun. Toledo turns and drops the gun simultaneously. You can armchair cop after watching the body cam, but it happens too quick for anyone to analyze in real time. Your choice is to shoot the armed suspect that's trying to escape or not shoot and risk getting shot. Which do you choose?
     
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  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    Lol "school day" - what is that?
     
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  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    Hmm...yeah.

    Home schooling holiday? Zooming w/ European boarding school?
     
  17. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    The officer told the suspect to “Show his ****ing hands.” The suspect immediately complied, but the officer didn’t even give him a chance to show his hands before he fired his weapon and killed him.

    Why even order the suspect to show “his ****ing hands” if you aren’t going to give him a chance to comply before firing your weapon?

    Toledo shouldn’t have put himself in that situation, nor should he have had a gun, but that doesn’t change the fact he showed his hands when the officer yelled at him to do so, yet the officer fired his weapon almost immediately after giving the command.
     
    #17 DVauthrin, Apr 15, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  18. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    Chiraqis up to no good.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...0210410-gml2yic2vfa23exyhzsdsmzurq-story.html

    A man who fired a gun as he stood next to 13-year-old Adam Toledo on a Little Village street corner sparked the chain of events that led to Toledo’s fatal shooting by Chicago police, Cook County prosecutors said in court Saturday.

    Ruben Roman, 21, was charged with felonies including child endangerment, aggravated unlawful use of a weapon and reckless discharge of a firearm after being arrested Friday. Judge Susana Ortiz ordered him held on $150,000 bond; he will need to post $15,000 to be released on an ankle bracelet pending trial.

    Roman is on video firing the weapon that brought officers to Little Village on the night of the shooting last month, authorities said. He and Toledo fled the area together, with officers pursuing them into an alley, according to prosecutors.

    Roman was arrested as another officer chased Toledo, who was holding a gun when an officer shot him, prosecutors said. Video of the events of that night have not been released publicly.

    That gun matched the spent cartridge casings that were found in the area where Roman was firing, prosecutors said.

    “If the defendant does not bring the 13-year-old with him, if he doesn’t bring his gun with him while on gun offender probation, if he doesn’t shoot that gun seven to eight times on a city street with (Toledo) standing in arm’s length of him while he’s firing those shots … none of it would have happened,” Assistant State’s Attorney James Murphy said in court.

    Roman’s attorney, Assistant Public Defender Courtney Smallwood, vigorously rejected the implication that Roman is responsible for Toledo’s death, noting that the gun was allegedly recovered from Toledo.

    “The victim is dead at the hand of the Chicago police officers, not my client,” she said, calling Toledo’s death “tragic.”

    About 2:30 a.m. March 29, Roman and Toledo were walking together on South Sawyer Avenue toward 24th Street, Murphy said. They can be distinguished in the camera footage by their clothing: a gold jacket on Roman and a white hat on Toledo, Murphy said.

    As they walked toward the corner, a vehicle drove by, and Roman walked up and got into a “shooting stance,” Murphy said.

    Toledo, at first, backed away. But as Roman began firing, the boy walked up closer until he was just an arm’s length away from the shooter, Murphy said.

    Roman got off seven or eight shots, and the two quickly fled, Roman taking the lead and Toledo right behind, Murphy said.

    A city ShotSpotter detected the gunfire, and two uniformed Chicago police officers in a marked squad car responded to the scene in less than a minute, Murphy said.

    Roman and Toledo cut through an alley together, and police gave chase on foot, Murphy said. Both of the officers’ body-worn cameras were recording.

    One officer tackled Roman as Toledo kept running. As Roman was being arrested, he dropped a pair of red gloves, Murphy said. Those gloves tested positive for gunshot residue, according to Murphy.

    Toledo kept running as an officer ordered him to stop, then paused near a break in a wooden fence, Murphy said. The officer ordered Toledo to show his hands. Toledo was standing with his left side to the officer and held his right hand to his right side, Murphy said.

    The officer told Toledo “drop it, drop it,” as Toledo turned toward the officer with a gun in his right hand, Murphy said.

    The officer fired one shot, hitting Toledo in the chest. The gun Toledo was holding landed a few feet away, Murphy said. The officer radioed for an ambulance and began chest compressions on Toledo, who was ultimately pronounced dead at the scene, Murphy said.

    The 9 mm Ruger that was recovered next to Toledo matches the fired shell casings that were found on the corner where Roman was shooting, prosecutors said. Toledo’s right hand also tested positive for gunshot residue, Murphy said.

    Roman was taken into custody and, when asked who he was with, initially gave a fake name for Toledo. Later, he denied knowing who he was with. He also denied shooting, saying he was just in the alley waiting for a train.

    “He never explained what train would have stopped in that alley,” Murphy said.

    Roman was released from custody on a misdemeanor charge of resisting a police officer before being taken back into custody. He is due back in court next month on that charge.

    Meanwhile, he failed to appear at a court hearing on an unrelated case Wednesday, leading a judge to issue a warrant for his arrest, records show. He is on probation for a gun charge in that case.

    Roman was arrested on the warrant Friday at his mother’s house, where he was hiding in the closet and had shaved his head in an apparent effort to disguise himself, Murphy said.

    Smallwood, Roman’s attorney, said much of the state’s evidence connecting her client to Toledo’s death was “speculative at best.”

    There was no indication that Roman ever wore the red gloves that tested positive for gunshot residue, or that the gun allegedly recovered from Toledo was in fact Roman’s weapon, she said.

    In setting bond, Ortiz noted that the spent cartridge casings from the scene matched the gun allegedly found in Toledo’s hands “that resulted in, as both sides put it, this very tragic situation.”

    https://policetribune.com/chicago-c...-to-retaliate-for-death-of-armed-13-year-old/

    The Chicago Police Department (CPD) issued an officer safety alert late last week after narcotics investigators discovered that factions of the Latin Kings street gang had been “instructed by ranking members to shoot at unmarked Chicago police vehicles.”

    The CPD said the order was allegedly given in retaliation for the officer-involved shooting death of 13-year-old Adam Toledo, the Chicago Sun-Times reported.

    The department issued the alert on April 1, warning that the Latin Kings members would likely shoot at unmarked police units, the Chicago Sun-Times reported.

    The alert did not specify why the gang would want to retaliate for Adam Toledo’s death.

    The CPD declined to comment on the safety alert, the Chicago Sun-Times reported.

    [...]

    Shortly after her son’s death, Elizabeth Toledo told reporters he often snuck out of their home and that she ended up filing a missing person’s report on him after he took off again on March 25, WLS reported.

    She said Adam Toledo returned home two days later, but that he was gone again by the night of March 28.

    It is unclear if Elizabeth Toledo reported him as missing on March 28.

    Elizabeth Toledo identified her son at the morgue two days later after she filed a missing person report with police, according to the paper.

    The second suspect who fled from officers during the encounter was identified as 21-year-old Ruben Roman.

    He was arrested on a charge of misdemeanor resisting arrest, WLS reported.

    According to court records, Roman was previously convicted of illegal gun possession and was sentenced to probation in 2019, the Chicago Sun-Times reported.


     
    #18 J.R., Apr 15, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  19. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    Think this explains one of the questions.
    [​IMG]
     
    #19 edwardc, Apr 15, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  20. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Hope is on the horizon in the NBA draft.
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    Agree
     

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