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Blackwater

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    I think I have cringe fatigue.

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  2. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    The GOP militia is absolved by state --


    Blackwater Faced Bedlam, Embassy Finds
    'First Blush' Report Raises New Questions on Shooting

    By Steve Fainaru and Sudarsan Raghavan
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Friday, September 28, 2007; Page A01

    The initial U.S. Embassy report on a Sept. 16 shooting incident in Baghdad involving Blackwater USA, a private security firm, depicts an afternoon of mayhem that included a car bomb, a shootout in a crowded traffic circle and an armed standoff between Blackwater guards and Iraqi security forces before the U.S. military intervened.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/27/AR2007092702498.html?hpid=topnews
     
  3. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Republican innuendo threatens fellow congressman --


    Rep. Darrell Issa went on CSPAN's Washington Journal this morning and had this to say about the House oversight committee's investigation of Blackwater

     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5187772.html



    Private contractors in Iraq could face prosecution


    By ANNE FLAHERTY
    Associated Press


    WASHINGTON — The House passed a bill today that would make all private contractors working in Iraq and other combat zones subject to prosecution by U.S. courts. It was the first major legislation of its kind to pass since a deadly shootout last month involving Blackwater employees.

    Democrats called the 389-30 vote an indictment in connection with a shooting incident there that left 11 Iraqis dead. Senate Democratic leaders said they planned to follow suit with similar legislation and send a bill to President Bush as soon as possible.

    "There is simply no excuse for the de facto legal immunity for tens of thousands of individuals working in countries" on behalf of the United States, said Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee, D-Texas.

    The FBI is currently leading an investigation into the Sept. 16 shootout, although administration officials acknowledge they are unsure whether U.S. courts would have jurisdiction in the case or others like it.

    In a separate incident, a drunk Blackwater employee left a Christmas Eve party in Baghdad and fatally shot the guard of one of Iraq's vice presidents. That contractor was fired, fined and returned home to the United States, but no charges have been filed.

    The current law, called the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act, covers personnel supporting the mission of Defense Department operations overseas. But because Blackwater's primary mission is to protect State Department officials, defense lawyers would likely argue that the law doesn't apply to Blackwater employees.

    Since the legislation is aimed at covering non-military contractors working in war zones, it's not clear how it would affect Houston-based KBR, the Pentagon's largest contractor working in Iraq, which already is covered by the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act..

    Under a major logistics contract with the U.S. Army, KBR workers build bases, serve up meals and provide a host of other support services for U.S. troops.

    A spokeswoman for KBR could not immediately say whether the company has personnel working for the State Department or other federal agencies in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    ``We will fully comply with legislation that is pertinent to our work in Iraq,'' KBR spokeswoman Heather Browne told the Houston Chronicle today.

    All U.S. contractors are immune from prosecution by Iraqi courts.

    The bill's passage came on the same day that a government minister told The Associated Press that the official Iraqi investigation said Blackwater security guards involved in the September incident face trial in Iraqi courts and the company should pay compensation to the victims.

    The White House and congressional Republicans said they support the intent of the bill, but thought it was drafted poorly and could have unintended consequences.

    In a statement issued Wednesday, the White House said the bill would have "unintended and intolerable consequences for crucial and necessary national security activities and operations." The statement did not explain further or give examples on how the bill would affect national security.

    The White House referred questions to the Justice Department, which declined to comment.

    Prior to passage, the House voted 342-75 to ensure the legislation would not affect intelligence operations.

    Rep. Chris Shays, R-Conn., accused Democrats of rushing the bill through Congress in a partisan bid to criticize the Bush administration's handling of the war.

    "It is amazing to me the number of men in Blackwater that have lost their lives and we never hear it on the other side of the aisle," Shays said. "Blackwater is evil. That's the way it appears in all the dialogue."

    Rep. David Price, who sponsored the bill, said the White House's objections were unfounded and "should infuriate anyone who believes in the rule of law."

    Blackwater founder Erik Prince told a House panel Tuesday that he supports expanding the law.

    "Beyond firing him for breaking the rules, withholding any funds we can, we can't flog him," Prince said of the intoxicated Blackwater guard. "We can't incarcerate him. We can't do anything beyond that."

    FBI agents will take control of the Sept. 16 probe from the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security as soon as a full team has been assembled in the Iraqi capital, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters today.

    McCormack stressed that the step did not necessarily imply that the investigation would result in criminal charges being brought against the contractors.
     
  5. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    In a new report, the Iraqi government wants the U.S. to “to sever all contracts in Iraq with Blackwater USA within six months and pay $8 million in compensation to each of the families of 17 people killed when the firm’s guards” opened fire in a Baghdad last month. The Iraqis also want the U.S. to hand over the guards involved in the incident for possible trial in Iraqi court.
     
  6. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Good for the Iraqis, they need to stand their ground on this. Unfortunately, Iraqi lives are cheap in the eyes of many of these mercenaries, they think they can kill and maim without any consequences (before now, they were right; there wasn't much accountability). It makes you wonder how many countless civilians have been murdered in similar fashion.

    If you invade a country and profess 'noble' intentions of helping its people construct a better live, then you have to employ all means necessary to protect them; justice is the most important tool of all. Otherwise, the locals will see right through you.
     
  7. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    And people wonder why the Iraqis want the US out of their country.
     
  8. ymc

    ymc Member

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    Looks like Blackwater also provided thrilling roller coaster rides as a bonus service. :rolleyes:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-gans6oct06,1,277428.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

    I survived Blackwater

    A former U.S. official received the security company's services -- and witnessed its disregard for Iraqi lives.
    By Janessa Gans
    October 6, 2007
    When the Iraqi government last month demanded the expulsion of Blackwater USA, the private security firm, I had one reaction: It's about time.

    As a U.S. official in Baghdad for nearly two years, I was frequently the "beneficiary" of Blackwater's over-the-top zeal. "Just pretend it's a roller coaster," I used to tell myself during trips through downtown Baghdad.

    We would careen around corners, jump road dividers, reach speeds in excess of 100 mph and often cross over to the wrong side of the street, oncoming traffic be damned.

    But much more appalling than the ride was the deleterious effect each movement through town had on the already beleaguered people of Iraq. I began to wonder whether my meetings, intended to further U.S. policy goals and improve the lives of Iraqis, were doing more harm than good. With our drivers honking at, cutting off, pelting with water bottles (a favorite tactic) and menacing with weapons anyone in their way, how many enemies were we creating?

    One particularly infuriating time, I was in the town of Irbil in northern Iraq, being driven to a meeting with a Kurdish political leader. We were on a narrow stretch of highway with no shoulders and foot-high barriers on both sides. The lead Suburban in our convoy loomed up behind an old, puttering sedan driven by an older man with a young woman and three children.

    As we approached at typical breakneck speed, the Blackwater driver honked furiously and motioned to the side, as if they should pull over. The kids in the back seat looked back in horror, mouths agape at the sight of the heavily armored Suburbans driven by large, armed men in dark sunglasses. The poor Iraqi driver frantically searched for a means of escape, but there was none. So the lead Blackwater vehicle smashed heedlessly into the car, pushing it into the barrier. We zoomed by too quickly to notice if anyone was hurt.

    Until that point I had never mentioned anything to my drivers about their tactics, but this time I could not contain myself.

    "Where do you all expect them to go?" I shrieked. "It was an old guy and a family, for goodness' sake. Was it necessary for them to destroy their poor old car?"

    My driver responded impassively: "Ma'am, we've been trained to view anyone as a potential threat. You don't know who they might use as decoys or what the risks are. Terrorists could be disguised as anyone."

    "Well, if they weren't terrorists before, they certainly are now!" I retorted. Sulking in my seat, I was stunned by the driver's indifference.

    The Iraqis with whom I dealt quickly learned to differentiate between the U.S. military and private contractors. The military has established rules of engagement, plus it is required to pay compensation for damages (though it is a difficult and bureaucratic process). Blackwater seemed to have no such rules, paid no compensation and, per long-standing Coalition Provisional Authority fiat, had immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law.

    As we do the work of bridge building and improving our host citizens' lives, if the people providing our transportation and security are antagonizing, angering and even killing the people we are putatively trying to help, our entire mission is undermined.

    Janessa Gans, a visiting political science professor at Principia College, was a U.S. official in Iraq from 2003 to 2005.
     
  9. pppbigppp

    pppbigppp Member

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    Holy beep. I mean like, seriously? This dude could had been one of the best comedian alive. Why did he choose to run for presidency again? :eek:
     
  10. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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    It is my understanding that Blackwater got their vendor's license during the Clinton Administration.
     
  11. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Correct but Blackwater is a collection of several different business units created at different times. The private security portion was created in 2001. Also, I'm not even sure why that's relevant.

    They weren't used in any major combat operations until the Bush administration deployed them in Iraq and in Louisiana after Katrina.

    Either way, contracting out direct military functions to private mercenaries was absolutely ridiculous and its starting to show why.
     
  12. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    State Dept may phase out Blackwater

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1670178,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

    (WASHINGTON) — The State Department may phase out or limit the use of private security guards in Iraq, which could mean canceling Blackwater USA's contract or awarding it to another company in line with an Iraqi government demand, The Associated Press has learned.

    Such steps would be difficult given U.S. reliance on Blackwater and other contractors, but they are among options being studied during a comprehensive review of security in Iraq, two senior officials said.

    The review was ordered after a Sept. 16 incident in which Blackwater guards protecting a U.S. Embassy convoy in Baghdad are accused of killing 17 Iraqi civilians.

    The shooting has enraged the Iraqi government, which is demanding millions in compensation for the victims and removal of Blackwater in six months. It also has focused attention on the nebulous rules governing private guards and added to the Bush administration's problems in managing the war in Iraq.

    And it prompted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to order the top-to-bottom review from a commission headed by Patrick Kennedy, one of the State Department's most experienced management officials.

    Kennedy has been told to concentrate on several key issues, according to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the review is still under way. Among them:

    —Changes to the rules of engagement under which State Department security contractors operate, particularly for approaching suspicious vehicles, which is at the crux of the Sept. 16 incident. Blackwater insists its guards were fired upon, although Iraqi witnesses and the Iraqi government maintain the guards opened fire with no provocation when a vehicle got too close.

    —Whether Blackwater's secretive corporate culture, reputed to have encouraged a "cowboy-like mentality," has led to its employees being more likely to violate or stretch the existing rules than those of the two other private security firms, Dyncorp and Triple Canopy, the State Department uses in Iraq.

    —Whether it's feasible to eliminate or drastically curtail the use of private foreign contractors to protect U.S. diplomats in Iraq. And, if so, how to replace them.

    The officials cautioned that no decisions have been made on what the review panel will recommend. They also said that each recommendation involves complex variables that could depend on interpretations of Iraqi and U.S. laws, as well as U.S. government regulations for vendors.

    But they said Rice is eager for changes and has already accepted and implemented initial steps Kennedy urged in a preliminary report last week. They included improving government oversight of Blackwater by having federal agents accompany convoys and installing video cameras in their vehicles.

    Kennedy has been in Iraq for nearly two weeks with one of three outside experts Rice named to the commission, Eric Boswell, a former diplomat and intelligence official. The other two, retired Army Gen. George Joulwan and former Ambassador Stapleton Roy, were being briefed on the mission at the State Department on Wednesday before heading to Baghdad.

    "They are going to take the time that they need with the understanding that the secretary wants to make sure that this is done with some dispatch," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.

    The officials said Kennedy's team was not expected to recommend eliminating all private contractors because it would have a profound impact on how U.S. diplomats work in Iraq. The State Department's own Bureau of Diplomatic Security lacks both the manpower and equipment, notably helicopters, to do the job, they said.

    The State Department has operated its own "air wing" with U.S. helicopters and planes for counternarcotics work in Latin America but has had to rely on contract pilots from Dyncorp to fly them.

    Blackwater is now the biggest of the three firms working for the department in Iraq with about 1,000 employees and handles protection in and around Baghdad, the most dangerous areas of the country. It has been paid as much as $1 billion for its work in Iraq.

    Dyncorp and Triple Canopy, which work in the north and south, are far smaller and face resource constraints.

    Under the terms of the department's Worldwide Personal Protective Security contract, which covers privately contracted guards for diplomats in Iraq, Blackwater, Dyncorp and Triple Canopy are the only three companies eligible to bid on specific task orders there.

    If Blackwater goes, the slack would almost certainly have to be picked up by one or more other companies, which may require certifying other firms to bid, including non-U.S. ones, the officials said.

    Of interest to the department is the possibility of forming Iraqi companies with Iraqi employees to protect U.S. diplomats as local guards do for embassy staff in other countries, they said. That would bring the guards fully under the jurisdiction of Iraqi law but is not a short-term option given inadequate training facilities.

    The Pentagon has been reluctant to provide security for diplomats but another alternative might be joint State-Defense department patrols. Yet another would be hiring Blackwater and other private guards as temporary U.S. government employees, the officials said.
     
  13. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    I think it's a testament that Blackwater has never lost a protected attachment ever in it's existance. Their tactics are rough, but they get the job done...besides the rough tactics, there is still NO compelling evidence that they killed 11 folks for no reason...
     
  14. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    GET OUT!!!

    Iraqi adviser: Blackwater shooting unprovoked, guards must go

    BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki asked the U.S. State Department to "pull Blackwater out of Iraq," after an Iraqi probe concluded that the private contractors committed unprovoked and random killings in a September 16 shooting, an adviser to al-Maliki told CNN.

    Adviser Sami al-Askari told CNN the Iraqis have completed their investigation into the shooting at Nusoor Square in Baghdad.

    Al-Askari said the United States is still waiting for the findings of the American investigation, but al-Maliki and most Iraqi officials are "completely satisfied" with the findings of their probe and are "insisting" that Blackwater leave the country.

    U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Mirembe Natango told CNN by telephone that the Iraqi-U.S. joint commission met and is proceeding with its work on the matter.

    "We need to let the joint commission do its work," she said, adding that once the joint commission has finished, it will make policy recommendations.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/16/iraq.blackwater/index.html
     
  15. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    I'm all for getting Blackwater out of Iraq, but do we have the manpower to do the jobs they are currently doing?

    I really don't think so... the military is close to the breaking point and unless we scale back our operations significantly, we need them.
     
  16. Faust

    Faust Member

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    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/ameri...uards-sentenced-shooting-150413124152803.html

    A federal court in Washington, D.C. has sentenced a former Blackwater security guard to life in prison and three others to 30 years in jail for their roles in a 2007 shooting that killed 14 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad and caused an international uproar.

    damn these guys going away for long time. maybe they'll get out in 10 for good behavior. i was just reading about this the other day because i was young when it happened.
     
  17. Bäumer

    Bäumer Member

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    This man was our president and that is a fact that is true.

    Also glad those animals from Blackwater are finally seeing justice.
     

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