fair enough...i guess you can only be a democrat and act like you are down if you really want to maintain the status of being "black" and not be called a sellout. i dunno...i just think its a bunch of crap. but thats me.
Awesome post... too bad we don't have more posts like this one. I'm about to go off topic a bit here, so bare with me. I think that if African Americans had real "leaders" rather then the empty skirts they do now that a lot more would get done. In my opinion the likes of Louis Farrakhan, Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton KEEP the people down intentionally, so they feel needed... while true leaders like Bill Cosby are bashed for speaking their mind. I see rich, successful and well versed blacks everyday so I know it happens. Look, I'm sorry your ancestor's and family members were oppressed, but I wasn't alive and I sure as crap couldn't do anything about it... many of you weren't alive either so how can you use it as a crutch? I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, because I know it does... but in the business world there are plenty of opportunities for those who want to do well. The beauty of the American society is that money talks, so the ones who work the hardest and are the most productive will always succeed. I had my fair share of poor times and was raised by a single mother making a whopping 200 bucks a week, and I turned out to be a professional who could have easily gotten a free college degree if I wanted it... so I know people can succeed if they really want it, it doesn't even take that much work these days. As mentioned above, blacks have only had equal rights for 40 years so do you expect their contributions to corporate America to improve overnight? Over 90% of fortune 500 CEOS are old white guys because old white guys have been running the country since its formation, in time blacks will have their fair share of the market and in the past ten years I've seen it improve tremendously... is it perfect, no but I think it is on the right track. It is sad but true, but whites have a 175 year jump start on you in this country... but that can't be changed, but I don't think giving someone a job as a CEO simply because they are black would be the answer easier. I look forward to the future when race isn't even an issue on either side of the argument... as I white man who grew up just as poor as many minorities I see people following the words of Bill Cosby succeeding far sooner then those following the leadership of the others mentioned above.
Condi Rice and Powell always come up in these discussions which is funny because I've never heard a black person call Powell an Uncle Tom. He's very well respected among liberal and conservative blacks. its just another false assumption people make about blacks. blacks also respect condi's accomplishments, its just she is much more of a mouthpiece for bush.
"There's an old saying. In the days of slavery, there were those slaves who lived on the plantation and there were those slaves that lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master ... exactly the way the master intended to have you serve him. Colin Powell's committed to come into the house of the master. When Colin Powell dares to suggest something other than what the master wants to hear, he will be turned back out to pasture." -- Harry Belafonte http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/10/15/belafonte.powell/
as far as bill cosby is concerned what black people have a problem with is that he has hardly ever said anything about race relations in this country and when he did, he comes out and bashes blacks.
does harry belafonte represent all blacks now, thanks for informing me instead of trying to learn something with your typical arrogance. I'm trying to tell you how everyday black people feel about these guys.
actually your post represents another problem, people thinking they have a pulse on black opinions because of what some outdated celebrity thinks. at least you could find a Spike Lee quote.
Dude, I could care less about a washed up Harry Belafonte. I was merely pointing out the fact that Powell is not loved by all. Personally, I think Colin's a decent guy who didn't want to bite the hand that feeds him.
but what's the point of pointing out one guy. that's my point, seems like you were trying to disagree. but the thing that really bugs me is if we debating something about what white people thought, I wouldn't put out a quote by an extreme liberal like Sean Penn to make a point. but in regards to opinions in the black community, it happens all the time in these debates. edit: by the way I'm not saying that I know what all black people think also, just that some of the things that get posted on here about how blacks think are assumptions that are not ground in any study, other than what a few outdated leaders like Sharpton think.
I don't have a pulse for black opinions nor do I want to, I'm not black and I don't look at anything from a "how will this race re-act" stance. You may have different opinions and different stances on how others may react, but I'm not going to change stances because people might get offended and as long as the argument is cival I won't appologize for it either. I'm giving you an opinion from a white man on how it looks to me. I know many blacks, whites, mexicans and the poor of American have a "woe is me" attitude instead of a "can do" attitude. The bottom line is people come from all walks of life and from 3rd world countries and come to American and become millionaires so I just don't understand the "man keepin' us down" concept that these leaders seem to always preach. Are you telling me that Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton have done a lot of good for black people in the last couple of decades? Because looking at them from a white man's perspective I would say they are impeding blacks more then helping. I grew up pretty damn poor and came from just about nothing, so I know it can be done... I wasn't handed anything because I am white, because the handouts are there for everyone to take. It isn't tough to get a free college education in this country but people still act like they can't get ahead in life. The Government gives you countless ways of having a higher education completely paid for but people choose not to utilize it. I'm not saying these are problems exclusive to blacks, because people from every race have this attitude... but I do interpret the actions of many "black leaders" to be counter-productive to the further development of the black race. Do most blacks agree with me? Probably not, because they wouldn't keep these leaders in business if they did... but that doesn't invalidate my views. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only American who agreed with every word of Bill Cosby's speach and praised it for being long overdue. Why does it matter his track record on "race issues" if his message is true? Simply because he hasn't spoken up before doesn't mean his words are wrong does it? I just don't understand the whole attitude of "where have you been for us in the past and now you're gonna tell us how it is" stance nor do I want to because I believe it is counter-productive... He is an extremely successful man who has led an amazing life and had an amazing career. If you don't want the black children of America to listen to him who would you rather they listen to? Our main problem as a society (on every level) is the fact that our children come from broken homes and have no structure... but if there isn't a father there to listen to, who should they listen to? I think more black leaders need to wake up and shake the youth awake... because as you've seen from the "hip hop/vote or die" leaders they don't exactly get much done.
Right on. Is it so preposterous to some of you that a black person might get offended by blackface? Who the hell am I to condemn someone who finds blackface offensive. It's 2005. Blackface is in poor taste. I don't think we need people claiming that is isn't.
i know what you are saying but in my african american studies class it was the attitudes that i am referencing that seem to permeate into young black american culture and african american studies today. and no i'm not using one simple class to judge a whole race, but i am trying to state the trends that i see where it is bad to be "white" or intellectual or glorifying "black" english or a whole host of things. these ideas were not as heavily present in the past generations. it's difficult having these conversations online because a lot gets lost since i am horrible at sitting here and explaining everything and expounding upon my points to perfection thru my written word. i know that not all black people all the same...that is given. i know everyone in the world isn't the same. but i am just talking about ideas that are more prevalent in black american culture as opposed to other cultures in america. i also know that pop culture shows a poor representation of black america as a whole. it portrays american blacks as more monolitic than the reality is. i was going to go into my points but i just don't feel like racking my brain over this to express what i am trying to say in a proper fashion. frustrated with my inability to express my thoughts leads me to end my discussion in this thread.
people keep referencing to what my feelings on this were. i guess i should have prefaced my feelings by stating that i am one of the more crude people in the world and i laugh at some pretty dark comedy. and i never said you don't have a right to be offended i just said don't be so sensitive and move on with your life. things get a lot easier when you don't let them get to you as much. and i do know what is it like to be ostracized and singled out and picked on to the point where you think about killing your self and everyone else around you. so please do not come at me with a "you just don't get it" point of view because i understand all too well and thats why i am the way i am.
That's ignorant bull**** that Black people with peas for brains lap up. It's the same thinking that Will Smith is white. It's that ****ing idiot thinking that will hold back any race.
I'm sorry, I was just poking fun. As another poster pointed out, it's important to keep your experience in context with the history of our country. In no way do I condone what you described but that you're so angry in your limited experience with this should raise your awareness a little bit and perhaps provide a little more compassion and understanding for people who may deal with a lot worse than what you've experienced. All we need is a little understanding my brother!
You're right - most people think of asians as science geeks and kung fu experts - very smart, meek, soft-spoken. But ya know - that's not a horrible sterotype to have, and a fairly easy one to break away from. When you think of Asians who face a lot of discrimination - it's mostly for an accent...again demonstrating that it's more about communication then anything else. Blacks have it the toughest - because the sterotypes assoicated with them are far more negative and much more difficult to break away from...and associated with black culture. If you wear corn rows people are going to make assumptions about you. But I know many blacks who don't dress white, don't act white, and are very successful professionals. They walk into a room and you feel the presence of intelligence and sophistication. Point is that blacks have a bigger obstacle but it's more mental then real. I don't think Jesse Jackson has sold out - but you know what - look at how he carries himself, how he acts. He's damn good and that's why he's successful. I truly believe if you desire it enough, you'll succeed inspite of your color. That wasn't true 30 years ago - but it's true today. The reason is because diversity has hit corporate america - it's not only fashionable, but people actually look down on racists. The values has shifted. The playing field is more level then ever. This is why I'm in favor of ending Affirmative action. Because it's done it's job. And now it's time to get rid of it so minorities can say they rightfully earned their place and it's not a result of quotas. The foothold is there.
Do you mean minorities AND women (both AA beneficieries)? Also, how do you distinguish which monorities rightfully earned their place and which ones didn't? Just curious....
I've heard this argument before that if Asians have a stereotype then it might as well be as a model minority but that is damaging in other ways. Asian American artists have often struggled because Asians weren't considered to be artistic beyond classical music while as pointed out in another thread the perception of Asians as being physically weak and nerdly has excerbated bullying of Asian youths. Asian men have been de-sexed by much of popular culture while Asian woman have been sexually idolized as submissive flowers. The most damaging aspect though is the perception among other minorities that Asian have been favored by the majority power structure. Asians as a whole are as complicated and diverse as any other ethnic group and we have to work as hard to overcome the supposedly positive stereotypes that we are quiet dilligent and submissive as other minorities the stereotypes that they are shiftless. Just look at the criticism that Yao takes when people keep on bringing up Yao's ethnicity as the reason for his lack of aggression. We Asians can be as aggressive and tough as any other race yet the stereotype is that we aren't.
I've brought this up before but Louis Farrakhan stresses the importance of education and economic self-reliance and proper bearing and decorum is a central piece of the Nation of Islam's message. Farrakhan, Malcolm X before him and the founder of the Nation of Islam, Elijah Mohammed have been saying the same thing as Bill Cosby since the 1940's. At the same time Jesse Jackson has also done a lot for poor whites and in general has spoken and worked on poverty and justice issues for all races almost as much as he has for African-Americans. He has also talked quite a bit about the importance of education, so has Sharpton, and has said like Cosby that African-Americans need to speak and bear themselves with decorum. I don't agree with a lot of the issues and rhetoric of the people you've cited but I think it is a very unfair and uninformed opinion to say that they intentionally keep their people down. While Cosby might've caused a stir in regard to his statements its not like other prominent African-Americans haven't been saying that blacks need to get better educated, work harder and speak and dress with decorum.
