On the front page of Clutch BBS, the title of this thread is displayed as "Black immigrants collect most..." I think one would naturally assume "welfare checks" in the place of "..." On the other hand, how exactly do you *collect* your degree?
that's because the only way someone from Africa can get into the U.S. is if they are super smart and qualified in some speciality.
The study of Africa (a continent) and the study of African Americans (i.e. the black American slave race) are fundamentally different. African American studies center around how "the white man screwed" African Americans because that is the origin of the collective identity. In other words, African American studies are about race specifically, while African studies are about a host of continental issues.
I understand that YOU might be able to tell this in YOUR mind, but that's not the way that afro-caribbeans see themselves, nor is it the way african americans see afro-caribbeans.
It really is important how you see yourself to your success in life. How can anyone deny this. Elite dark skinned families from wherever. Africa, Santo Domingo, West U. see themselves differently and have different expectations of themselves from poor ghetto African Americans, virtually all of whom are descendants of slavery in the US. Affirmative action, like a strong labor union helps a generation or two. Later generations then have what it takes to go from there. The American dream is about more than just benefitting from the chance to make a million free from any taxation.
Are you making the connectionb between affirmative action and the rise in African Americans getting more degrees?
Of course, Black Americans have to be willing to help themselves as well in the process. Education is the key here and will always be the key; same applies to a growing segment of Hispanic-Americans who're shunning the value of a good education and are not even finishing their high school degrees. A lot of those West African immigrants are Nigerians, Cameroonians, and Ivorians and most of them come from less-than-nothing backgrounds, leaving everything back home but their college degrees. Once they get to the States, they still focus on education as the way to get ahead, and that's how many of them have been able to avoid living in poverty and get ahead in their professional lives. Education is the key, plain and simple.
You are right that education is the key but poor kids in most states are in schools where most funding is by the local community. Poor kids go to poor schools where most of the good teachers have left for the burb's (and more money), and have underfunded buildings and resources. These same kids that need the resouces the most are getting it the least. They are growing up in families that are undereducated and poor so they are not exposed to the same learning opportunities that kids in wealthier districts are. They are not read to, they are not taken on educational trips or even hear discusion on news, history and current events in their houses because their parents aren't well educated either. They have all those strikes against them and we send them to underfunded schools. I think the key is having equal funding for our schools so all children have the same opportunities at education --- this isn't the case today.
Agreed on all points. The thing is recent immigrants go through these things as much as homegrown African-Americans. So what could be driving the recent immigrants to be so motivated for education success? I believe it is family structure. I realize I make a blanket statement, but I really do believe that recent immigrants have much stronger family structure than the African American descendants of slavery. A strong family structure goes a LOOOONG way to WANTING to make something of yourself beyond what your surroundings dictate. Education is key, but family structure is even more. As to why the family structure is so weak amongst slave descendants, you only need to look at how slaveowners treated those slaves with any sort of family.
This isn't exactly true. I've mentioned before but there are four groups that regardless of family's income level, do more poorly. They are African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Native Americans, and Hawaiians. Add to that that all of these groups especially African-American are more likely to be misidentified special-ed. If you put a child who doesn't belong there in those classes, they aren't going to perform the same way as they would in an environment with honor students. It is not by coincidence that those groups were enslaved, conquered, or forcibly colonized. In addition to all the poor schooling they received, their parents in many cases received worse schooling, and may have grown up in situations where their families weren't even allowed to vote. So from the get-go those parents aren't buying into the system. The system hasn't shown them a reason to buy into it. People who immigrate here are already buying into the system, and the culture at home is one of believing in education and striving for that. It makes a huge difference in the children and what they get out of education. Also a large portion of the families that immigrate don't come from the poorest of the poor and from families that have no education. They come from educated families. The key to all of that isn't to excuse anyone from not doing well in school. It is to understand that, and address their needs so that they get the same quality of education as other students so they can learn the exact same things, and are held to the same standards. There just needs to be adjustments in the way they are taught. It shouldn't be a one-size fits all, type of education that if you work really hard you can squeeze into it.
I was referring to family structure, not income level. my family was extremely poor when we immigrated here, but I had both parents who worked very hard TOGETHER and I was able to look to my mom and dad for support. Thats the family structure which I was talking about. Also I was making the comparison between why recent immigrants do better than their homegrown counterparts (I am assuming that for all intents and purposes, this is true..if not, please correct me). agreed with you on all points.
just FYI...i have been sitting here for the past 15 minutes trying to think of a way to correctly convey what i am trying to say. i am really bad at getting the thoughts out of my head but i will try... ok well basically yes you can trace back almost all of the problems with in american black society today to slavery, segregation, and discrimination but that does not mean you can only focus on them as what holds back blacks today. whites are simply not an impediment to advancing in america today...that is clearly evidenced by the article with the achievements by african immigrants and all immigrants for that matter. one impediment that persists is the massive amount of children being born out of wedlock and acceptance of that as normal within american black society. along with that there is the complete breakdown of the family structure among american blacks. another barrier within american black society would be the acceptance of not acting "white" and the emphasis of being intellectual or academic as something "white". so i say american whites have destroyed american blacks to a point because whites are simply not that big of a barrier to american blacks anymore. whites aren't systematically trying to stop blacks from succeeding. the problems are that exist are mostly self destructive. this does not mean i think there is no discrimination and that we live in a perfect world but it's just not that bad. yes you can trace everything back to slavery and discrimination but my question is how long should african american studies continue to only focus on what others have done when whites aren't holding people back any longer? one more generation? two more? 3 more? when will the field start to actually focus on the negative behavior within american black culture that is like an elephant in the room that no one outside of black america is allowed to talk about? and finally i am not dismissing the effects of slavery and segregation but i am annoyed when other major issues are not focused on within the field of african-american studies.
yes ME and the Harvard Admissions Office too apparently. So if I see myself as "black" then could I fill in the "African-American" box when applying for colleges? Can a white guy from Africa check that box? I'm sorry but when it comes to affirmative action - it is not important how YOU see yourself. It's important how others see you.
I agree with alot of your points -- but it doesn't remove the fact that children growing up in poverty have less opportunity to move away from that poverty as children growing up in wealthier areas. Family structures, access to early education, access to quality education are all real problems that need to be addressed. Just saying "stop having babies" or "take more responsibility" while correct statements doesn't really help address the underlying problem. If you were born to a poor teen-age mother -- with not much of a support system and at 15 you are living in a dump with a drug-addicted mother and alot of younger siblings. Your clothers, food, shelter are all inadequate -- your brother and sisters go to bed (if you even have a bed) hungry. You can stay in your under-funded poorly staffed school and in your crappy situation or you can get a job and at least buy clothers and food.
I don't remembre what harvard's application looks like , but I'm pretty sure it contains more boxes than "black" "white" "brown" "red" and "yellow". Anyway, domincans would identify themselves as hispanic, though I imagine there probably is a space for afro-caribbean or non-white hispanic on their application I'm not really sure how many times I have to explain this to you? Maybe I can figure out an experiment to save us the trouble. Why don't you come to Manhattan. Then you take the 2/3 train up to, oh, somehwere around 161st street or so in Washington Heights. Walk into the first bodega you see (fyi, a "bodega' is like a small grocery store). Ask the first dark skinned person you see if he is black (or "Dime, eres un negro?"). Then come back here and tell us what happens. Then we can move on to phase two of this experiment over in Bedford-Stuyvessant.
