I agree with your first sentence. However, while everyone has the opportunity to succeed, not everyone is given equal opportunity. Assume we're both given the chance to win $1 million if we sink a shot during the halftime of a Rockets game. You get a layup to do it. I have to shoot a half-court shot. We both were given the opportunity, right? But somehow I don't think it was equal opportunity. Equality of opportunity is what most black people ask for, not equality of outcome.
No, everyone is not given EASY opportunities, including whites. And your analogy is almost offending. Yes there are some in this world that are handed things on a silver platter by their relatives. But to discard the rest of the white population efforts that worked hard for sucess is just plain wrong. Believe it or not Dr. Dunk, everyone that is born white complexion is not entitled to the easy life. They wake up at 5am, and come home at 9pm. They go to school full-time, and work full-time to finish school. They get turned down for jobs they are qualified for just as blacks. So if your educated and black, don't feel left out if your turned down for job, or someone less qualified than yourself gets a raise...... welcome to the real world, its equally unfair to everyone
How about a little positive news and humor in this thread? A couple of years ago my kids, then about 7 and 9, were watching a movie on tv (I believe it was Places in the Heart or something) about a widow in the Depression who was helped out on the family farm by a black man. The KKK got involved, and there was alot of use of the "forbidden" word. Since I don't use the word (other than in the context of a discussion such as this), I wanted to make sure they understood what the word meant, literally, figuratively, and historically. Neither child had ever heard the word. 15 years will be here sooner than you think. I do remember the comment of my 7 year old about the KKK. "How come they get to wear such cool costumes?" (It was near Halloween). Aren't kids great? By the way, they both are in HISD. Additional by the way ... I think it is silly that I can't use the "forbidden" word ... a word I hear in the movies and on tv and the radio on a regular basis, so long as the word is not being used in an inappropriate fashion. Just my $.02.
I don't think DoD meant that everything is easy for all whites. I think he is speaking more along the lines of black people still being behind whites. Sure, whites can struggle like anyone else...and plenty must work really hard for something, but blacks are more disadvantaged, in general. At least that is how I read it. In any event, this thread keeps getting worse. Maybe it is time to let it go bye-bye.
MB, you silly 'boy' (sorry, just couldn't resist the urge to put one extremist poster's name next to another - especially when they're on opposite ends of the spectrum)...do you really think Rosa refused to sit in the back the FIRST time she ever took a bus? Although I'm white I have lived in the (3rd?) ward and found that the majority of the people who lived around me got up and went to work just like the rest of us. In fact, most of them worked a lot harder, for a lot less money than most of the 'professionals' that I know. More importantly, I know it must be hard for you to go to work behind that fried chicken counter everyday, but instead of blaming minorities for your fate, you might concentrate on getting to where you want to be.
I do not work at a fried chicken place, I simply stated that there were a lot around this area. I dont blame minorities for where I am today, where I am is pretty good, but it is because I have worked my ass off. If I work hard, I dont think my money should go to people who dont. I do think that it should go to people that are in need. I want those that need it to get it. I am not heartless like most of you think. I am just passionate about what I think just as you are about what you think.
...mmmmmm.... All I had yesterday was an apple and a cucumber. Today, all I've had is a grapefruit. I'd just about kill for some of my own fried chicken, blackeyed peas and hot water cornbread, some of my sister's mashed potatoes, some of my mom's dark brown gravy, and some mustard greens out of my dad's garden.
I never said that. Who said anything about "silver platters"? I'm talking about the most basic of equalities. I could present these to you or give you examples, but I'm beginning to feel there's no point. I never did. Where did I say this? Uhhhh... Huh? Right! I think this thread has run its course. The tantrum above was about enough for me. This has gone from a somewhat civil discussion to a Jerry Springer episode. I get the feeling that some of you just have some pent-up hate/frustrations that you're waiting to release no matter what the situation. The stuff you're blasting me for above relates to nothing I've said or believe.
Wow. How did I miss so much, just by going to class. As for my ignorance, it doesn't mean anything. I agree that it means less people associate black people with being poor and uneducated. Isn't that what they wanted? The black people are the ones who bring up racism at the drop of a hat it seems. And to anyone who wants to challenge my knowledge of history again, here is the amendment giving blacks the right to vote. "XV - Race no bar to voting rights Passed by Congress February 26, 1869. Ratified February 3, 1870. 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." See that date? It says 1870, which if I'm not mistaken, is before 1920. I believe these are the amendments you were looking at. "XIX - Giving nationwide suffrage to women Passed by Congress June 4, 1919. Ratified August 18, 1920. 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." "XXIV - Barring poll tax in federal elections This Amendment altered Article 1 Section 2 Part 3 Passed by Congress August 27, 1962. Ratified January 23,1964. 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay poll tax or any other tax. 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." Recognize that Timing? I was wide awake. Maybe you need to get some better study habits! Just because blacks couldn't afford the poll tax does not mean they had no right. They were given the same opportunity to vote as everyone else. And DoD, yes white people do have a stereotype against them. Everyone on this board seems to think any white person who bows down to every black person's whim is a racist. We're the ones trying to keep you down. That's why everytime we mention something about a black person, it's considered racism. It's because the black people won't let go. They ARE equal now. They have the opportunity to do anything they want. If they don't take it, that's not my fault, but they think it is. As far as the women's issue goes, I'm not trying to draw a direct comparison, once again. Simply pointing out that other people had it bad and instead of complaining about it for years they did something about it and made something for themselves. http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/amend1.htm#18
You said that white people get a lay up while black people shoot from half court. Sounds like the same thing as a silver platter to me. Unbelievable. This guy has one of the most easy going responses and you trash him.
I can't believe someone would actually believe that implementing a poll tax that you know that rural blacks couldn't afford means that those people who had the tax levied upon them had the same rights to vote as those who basically didn't.
Or, even better, instituting a citizenship test which is impossible to answer as a pre-condidtion for voting. And we even get to grandfather in all the white people and just make black people take the test. Then everyone will have the same opportunity.
RM95 I know those were done to keep blacks away, but not entirely. There were other reasons. But what you said brings up a valid point. While that was not specifically done to blacks, it was directed towards them. And I think that's where a lot of this racism comes up. The fried chicken commercial was about a stereotype of black people liking fried chicken (and that was all, to me). But black people said it was negative and against them and prejudiced and whatnot. It's like they think that white people always have a hidden agenda (like with the pole tax) of ways to keep black people down. And I don't think that's the case at all. This, DoD, is an example of how blacks don't understand whites. And while I'm here, I wanted to comment on the lynchings. I know there were some, but you only gave me one name when you asserted that thousands of these happened. And they didn't just happen in the South. Some of the worst racism was in the North.
I believe the appropriate phrase is "functional equivalent." You have the right to buy a new yacht tomorrow. Does that mean that you have the same access to yachts as say, Bill Gates?
Holy crap. I can't believe yo ujust stated this. Have you ever studied constitutional law? If you had, you'd know that many of these "black codes" were overturned on the basis of statements by politicians at the time they were passed that made it absolutely explicit that they were fundamentally racist in nature. Same with certain forms of de facto segregation. How is that relevant? It seems like you're less itnerested in debating with us than defending some sort of idealized notion of southern culture.
Huh? That's funny, then why weren't pole taxes created till imediately the 15th amendment? I'll give you a hint: they weren't there to raise money. What about citizenship tests that only people who did not previously have the right to vote had to pass in order to vote? Who were those measures directed towards? The reason there is so much bitterness and resentment is becuase in most cases there was a hidden (or usually not so hidden) agenda of ways to keep black people down. You may have taken classes on this but they either didn't teach very much or you didn't listen very much...
Baiter : you're not the baiter you think you are. princess : You have got to be kidding, right? You sure are into generalizing. I don't think every white person on the board is that way. Heck, I don't know anyone from the bbs, to be honest. For example, I don't think Jeff is that way, and he's white. He goes out of his way to find a happy medium. I can see your pent up anger/frustrations peeking through in every sentence I quoted above. I think most of "them" would be more offended by you saying "they" have the opportunity to do anything they want. It goes back to your defense of the 15th Amendment in which you admit the restrictions placed on their right to vote, yet assume they somehow are equal. I simply can't believe you'd state something like that. Regarding black people won't let go... like I said, it's only been about 40 years, you'll have to "forgive them" for that. As for the stereotypes that "all white people must be racists", you said : You're white. Can't you just laugh along at the stereotype that you're a racist? And for the record, I'd like to say that I don't think you're a racist everytime you say something about a black person - that would be one heck of a generalization. However, when you start generalizing people as "they", "you", "everyone", etc., as you did above, it does worry me a bit. Anyway, I hope you find the answers you're looking for, but it seems you've regressed a bit in your responses in this thread. I'm not sure why that happened. What started out as an interesting dialog has turned into a finger-pointing them vs. us marathon with people jumping to conclusions, accusing others of unstated points, etc.
I'm also trying to figure out why she keeps stating that racism was just as bad, if not worse, in the North. Absolutely not relevant.
Originally posted by Princess Recognize that Timing? I was wide awake. Maybe you need to get some better study habits! Just because blacks couldn't afford the poll tax does not mean they had no right. They were given the same opportunity to vote as everyone else. ROFLMAO!! If I had not been reading your posts myself I wouldn't believe it. Princess I HIGHLY encourage you to read this entire page but I'll post a few excerpts for you cause I'm just a nice guy like that. Voting in the United States Section 2 of the Fifteenth Amendment authorized Congress to enforce the amendment by "appropriate legislation." In due course it enacted a variety of voting laws during Reconstruction, requiring election officials to give all citizens the same opportunity to vote, and making it a federal crime to violate state laws governing the election of federal officials, to interfere privately or officially with a citizen's right to vote, or to commit fraudulent acts in connection with registering voters or counting ballots. Congress also established a system of federal supervisors of elections. None of these laws was adequately enforced, however, and some of them were declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Then, in 1894, after the end of Reconstruction, Congress itself repealed many of the post-Civil War voting laws, including those dealing with federal supervision of state elections. The consequence of the lack of enforcement of the Fifteenth Amendment was predictable--the disfranchisement of African-Americans. After the Civil War, despite widespread intimidation and violence by whites, blacks registered and voted in substantial numbers in the states where they had formerly been disfranchised, and many were elected to office. But minority participation in the elective process was generally possible only because of the presence of federal troops dispatched under various Reconstruction laws. After Reconstruction ended in 1877, and federal troops were withdrawn from the South, the disfranchisement of blacks began in earnest and the promise of equal voting rights held out by the Fifteenth Amendment faded. A common method of discouraging blacks from voting was to make the elective process more difficult and cumbersome. During this period, white legislators gave free rein to their imaginations in burdening the franchise with onerous requirements. Voter registration figures reveal the effectiveness of post-Reconstruction disfranchisement. In Louisiana in 1896 there were 130,334 blacks registered to vote. In 1900 there were only 5,320. In Mississippi 70 percent of the black voting age population was registered to vote in 1867. By 1899 the figure had plummeted to 9 percent. Registration statistics from other states are much the same. It is no exaggeration to say that at the turn of the century, after the end of Reconstruction and after judicial and legislative repeal of laws supporting the Fifteenth Amendment, blacks and other racial minorities no longer participated in a meaningful way in the political life of the United States.
