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Birthright Citizenship

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Jan 21, 2025.

  1. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Only family categories with no quota are children under 21, spouses and parents. For Indian and Chinese kids born in the US who in theory aren't birthright citizens, they'll age out before their parents can sponsor them so their only option with no backlog is marriage.

    The system is so stupid that the fastest way for Indian work permit holders to get PR is to have children in the US (who today are citizens) and then wait until their kids turn 21 and then have the kids sponsor the parents (since there's not quota). We've created a completely perverse system where the kids have to sponsor the parents rather than the other way around.
     
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  2. AroundTheWorld

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    not even a country
     
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  3. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

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    Fundamentally, birthright citizenship for children born to non-citizen or permanent resident parents was a loophole that a lot of people were happy to look the other way on, but I can't really argue against it being unreasonable that that loophole is being closed. I would have a fiercely different opinion if it was a retroactive change. If I'm reading correctly its just one of the two parents having citizenship OR permanent residence then that is reasonable IMO.

    At no point was the US official policy ever open borders so at some point people should have had an expectation that that loophole wouldn't have been open forever.
     
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  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    Checking back in.
    Birthright citizenship isn’t a loophole. It was written after the Civil War so former slaves wouldn’t be denied citizenship. In 1898 it was then ruled to expand to Chinese and other immigrants born here under the Wong Kim Ark case. It wasn’t expanded to Native Americans until 1924. This isn’t some new loophole in the law but established law for over 100 years.
     
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  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    In terms of retroactive change that it’s even being considered doesn’t make it any easier that the EO might not be retroactive. That they are wiling to change long established law certainly means they could consider it retroactive.

    Also in a personal note I’ve never been one of those who say “I got mine” so I don’t care about what happens to others who might be in my situation. Knowing the history of it and that it was someone like me that made it possible for me to have citizenship I’m not going to say “too bad” to future people.
     
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  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    Finally given that the native born population of Americans is declining. If we want to maintain a successful prosperous nation decades from now we need more Americans not less.
     
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  7. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    I love how people refer to a constitutional amendment that explicitly guarantees citizenship at birth as a loophole but other amendments like the second amendment are sacrosanct and require a maximalist interpretation of their scope.

    A constitutional amendment isn't a loophole. If you want to fix it, amend the constitution.

    The citizenship clause of the 14th amendment came AFTER congress passed the civil rights act of 1866 which also enshrined birthright citizenship. In fact, Congress proceeded with the 14th amendment because authors of the civil rights act weren't sure if birthright citizenship was constitutional. So they went ahead and added it into the 14th amendment language to enshrine it in the constitution.

    So far from being a "loophole," it was a clause that was passed twice (once in legislation and once as an amendment). It's literally part of the constitution and if you make the case that this is an "accident" then all of the decisions since Heller around gun rights are equally suspect and all of the first amendment cases (like citizens united) are also accidents and should be struck down.
     
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  8. AroundTheWorld

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    This is circular reasoning based on your own assumption that makes no sense.

    You started this thread dramatically declaring that you might lose citizenship.

    That was pretty much immediately debunked.

    Yet, you want to keep it dramatic.
     
  9. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Because once you start poking holes in constitutional amendments and creating carveouts, there's nothing preventing a future administration from taking it farther. That's the whole reason for constitutional rights. They are intended to be above the reach of government. So yes, I totally understand the fear of seeing citizenship being stripped. I'm in the same boat as I was also born before my parents got their green cards. So yeah, I feel a little worried myself about this. My sister was born after my parents got their green cards but I was born before so I hope you can at least empathize a little and understand how frustrating and

    You can say this order exempts us since it isn't retroactive but what stops Trump or a future president from taking it further. This exact scenario happened in the Dominican Republic. They got rid of birthright citizenship and then years later they made it retroactive and stripped citizenship from citizens born in the Dominican to non-Dominican parents. Once you start down this path, you can't predict how it ends.
     
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  10. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It's also the general principle of not feeling like a Real American despite living here all your life.

    Stephen Miller needs to roast for this.
     
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  11. AroundTheWorld

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    I understand the emotional concern, but I don't think a retroactive stripping of citizenship would survive any constitutional law scrutiny, for a second.
     
  12. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Put aside me and Rocketsjudoka for a second. You're willing to tell me that a younger version of me born today is somehow not entitled to be an American anymore. When I was a kid, my dad got his green card within 2 years of applying. My dad would have a 40+ year wait today. So not only do I get citizenship at birth but I also grew up at a time when my parents could actually naturalize. And taking away birthright citizenship like this implies that I dont deserve citizenship as much as everyone else. Sure you say it's not retroactive but there's still an implied reasoning that people like me don't deserve US citizenship and that our benevolent leader is nice enough to let us keep our passports.
     
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  13. AroundTheWorld

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    That's not what I am saying.

    I was only stating my opinion that trying to retroactively take people's passports away would be very obviously unconstitutional (and wrong).

    Just for perspective, Germany (as an example) does not have birthright citizenship. Different countries have different approaches between ius sanguinis and ius soli.

    And then, if you do have ius soli (birthright citizenship), there are gradual differences on how you can structure it (not retroactively, though).

    I think many people would actually agree that someone who is born to illegal immigrants should not get citizenship (haven't looked at polls).

    For people who are permanent legal residents (on a green card), I think most people would currently say that if a child is born to them in the country, they should get citizenship.

    The grey area is in between, where someone is legally in the country, but on a temporary visa (which is actually my case, except we are not planning to have more children).

    Again, I really empathize with the emotional component here, and I haven't looked into whether a change can even be made by executive order here, but I think there is a legitimate argument (going forward) to say children born to illegal immigrants should not automatically get citizenship.
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Those countries don't observe the US Constitution. This EO isn't about what's reasonable or commonly practiced. It's about our rights guaranteed in the Constitution.
     
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  15. calurker

    calurker Member

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    Why the **** are you even commenting on this? You’re neither American nor immigrant.
     
  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    If polls meant a damn, we'd already have a ban or strict limits on most guns and assault rifles.
     
  17. AroundTheWorld

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    I live in the US (on a visa, no green card yet). As far as I can see, if we were to have another child, of the posters so far, I would actually be the only one negatively affected by this (because the people who already have a US passport, like @rocketsjudoka, would not actually be affected).

    Does that get your approval to be allowed to comment? Thanks in advance for your kind consideration.
     
  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Is America every other country in the world?
    I thought we were *special*
    What about that Universal Health care alot of them have?
    More Gun Control?

    Since we trying to be like all the other cool kids

    Rocket River
     
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  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Rockets forever!
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    Who knows what Trump will do, but I don't think anyone here is safe unless you are a long time citizen, and that is only temporary unless folks stand up to this tyrant, or he dies (Please let that happen ASAP).

    DD
     
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  20. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    yep . . . why the Dems are where they are :rolleyes:
     
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