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Bill Zeller's suicide note

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by tehG l i d e, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    it's ronny AND mayzar...they're an item now.
     
  2. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Life is not lived in a vacuum. We are shaped by our environment and those around us. Those around him have done nothing but hurt him his entire life, from his family to his so called friends whom he confided in. That is the reason why he did not overtly seek help.

    Does that mean it was the right thing to do? Or that truly no one could help him?

    The answer to those questions do not matter, because his life was all that he knew. Just like yours and mine are all we know. And he should not be blamed or judged for his choices when there was no other way to know better.
     
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  3. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Ronny did always seem awfully EUROPEAN.
     
  4. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    I work through my emotions on my own all the time. As I have gotten older I have started to wonder if I should see a psychiatrist/therapist or tell my friends about everything in my life. I have realized I am depressed among other things. I have realized that telling myself that I hate myself, in spite of everything I've accomplished, and my random passing thoughts of wishing I was dead and wondering what it would be like to jump off a tall building aren't healthy thoughts.

    Luckily, I have many things grounding me and I do have a relatively stable head because I have forced myself to deal with stuff and think through everything...but I wasn't raped as a child so I don't know how something like that would have changed me.

    He didn't try to work through his emotions. He put a wall up and just assumed he knew everything about how everyone would act if he told people he was raped. I am sorry he couldn't confront everything and that he felt like suicide was the only way out.
     
  5. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Unfortunately, no. In fact it seems that no matter how great the sufferer's pain there will still be many (most, in fact) who reserve a deeper scorn for those who take their own lives than they even do for murderers.

    I don't consider those who commit suicide to be heroes. But there are those here that would condemn him, after a lifetime of profound and unending suffering, for not "trying everything." That he tried as much and as hard as he did to survive in the face of his suffering was indeed heroic. That he failed to find relief is deeply sad.

    But those who pretend they can imagine his life and his suffering well enough to pass judgment on his final act (the only option he believed would finally bring an end to his pain) are misguided. No man can know another man's pain. As such, it is for none of us to judge the relative facts of 'how hard he tried.' 23 years is a long time to 'try' in the face of unending darkness. Some here would have him suffer 23 more, nay 63 more, and for what?

    Nobody here knows Bill Zeller's pain. And nobody here is sufficiently informed, intelligent or omniscient to say he didn't try hard enough. I chalk that stuff up to ignorance and conditioning. But the coward/selfish stuff I just find unbearable. And hell yes it's self-righteous. It is the very definition of self-righteous.
     
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  6. tmoney1101

    tmoney1101 Member

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    What's the point in analyzing the misfortune of another human being? We could never know fully what this guy was going through. Every person has unique experiences that define them as a person. Who are we to judge?

    All I can do is sympathize with him and his family and hope that he finds more peace in death than he did in life.

    I actually find his letter somewhat inspirational and if others view it in the same light then maybe, in death, Bill Zeller finally found his voice.
     
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  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    You know what, so do I.

    DD
     
  8. bnb

    bnb Member

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    Maybe we're just arguing semantics...but I'd say he was unable to work through his emotions. Possibly a weakness on his part? But doesn't change much. If he had a weak heart and died of heart attack, we wouldn't condemn him. Mental illness is tougher to grasp.

    I don't take solace in that he's 'in better place.' Again...not my judgement to make. Just sadness.
     
  9. rtsy

    rtsy Member

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    Bill also ate McDonald's double cheeseburgers, shopped at Walmart, listened to contemporary country music and was overweight.
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Very troubling read and while I hope he is at peace I can't say that I agree with what he did.

    What I find very troubling is that he lays out a well thought out and even very logical argument for why he is doing it yet it is an argument that is incomplete. While I have not suffered the same trauma that Bill Zeller did I have been through trauma and wrestled with my own darkness. I've even felt the same way that he did regarding having my darkness infect others and probably one of the reasons why I have not married has to do with that.

    I hesitate to write this next part but if there is any kind of understanding to be gained from this and something that could help someone else I am going to talk about my own experience. When I graduated undergrad I went through a very dark time and came very close to just ending it all by tossing myself off of a bridge. I had dealt with bouts of depression before and in a perverse way I sometimes fantasized about killing myself. I would often look to it as a voluptuous act such as imagining the feel of a knife cutting my belly open or what it felt like to plunge into icy water and imagine it filling my lungs. There came a point to when I made a similar argument that Bill Zeller had and decided it would be better just to end it now than put up with whatever more pain life would dish out. What saved me though is what I can only describe as a spiritual revelation.

    It was a realization that my life isn't solely my own and that there is a meaning to it that while I don't understand what it is and may never there is a reason for my existence.

    Right there I understood the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism that the nature of our existence is suffering but through the understanding that our existence is greater than self we can see through that suffering.

    To try to put it in simpler terms we don't exist in complete isolation but our existence is affected by and affects the existence of everything else. Our actions and our presence has repercussions on the rest of existence that we ourselves aren't always aware of. Bill Zeller puts forward that he sees his existence as only causing further pain on others. From his point of view that may be very true but that is only his point of view. Its his life but he isn't in the position to judge how his life benefited and touched others. For that matter he can't know how his life may benefit others in the future. He only knows what he felt and saw up to the point that he died.

    Suicide isn't so much a selfish act as it is a self centered act that only considers things from one's own point of view.

    To give another example. I had a friend who died suddenly a couple of years ago. He didn't kill himself but he had been depressed and that might have indirectly contributed to him dying in his mid-30's. When he died he was living with his parents, didn't have a job, hadn't been in a relationship or even dating for at least a decade, spent most of his time watching science fiction and playing World of Warcraft. He was overweight and didn't take care of his body. He was essentially a text book loser. Only when he died did I get a sense of how many lives he had touched and the complexity of his life. At the funeral his dad told me he was glad that we were there because he only knew him as a son while we knew him as friends. That is the way that all of our lives are though. We only know parts of each other's lives and even ourselves we only know our life from our own perspective not what it means to everyone and everything else.

    To follow up on the quote from Camus cited earlier:
    "it is the only question worth pondering. We don't ask to be born, it is thrust upon us. And we have no choice as to whether we will die: we will. Our only power in this situation, a situation that renders us mostly powerless, is to determine the time and method of death - a thing that is already an inevitability."
    That is true we didn't ask to be born and our death is inevitable but in between we exist and that existence has an affect on all of existence.

    Sorry for the long and hopefully not too overwrought post. I did want to say one more thing about Bill Zeller. His decision to kill himself was his but from his letter it sounds like he was very ill served by his friends and by medicine. He obviously had severe trust issues but perhaps a good therapist could've addressed those and good friends could've helped restore his trust.

    Terribly tragic.
     
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  11. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Just to say one last thing. There is one message that he is trying to convey. It is not of sadness. It is not of pity. It is certainly not to be a hero. The entire purpose of his letter, to write it at all and not simply kill himself, is for people to understand.

    While I certainly do not condone suicide. Nor do I encourage suicide, no matter HOW bad the circumstances. After reading his letter, maybe for the first time in my life, at least I understood. And for that, at least for one person, his message was not written in vain.
     
  12. CBrownFanClub

    CBrownFanClub Member

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    1) What a disturbingly eloquent description of the absolute worst type of PTSD. What a shame, what a victory of evil over the goodness of life, childhood and all that is good in the world.

    2) If anyone on this board is reading this thread and feels like his letter is reflective of your experience on this planet, please please understand that quality therapies and treatments exist. They will not erase bad memories, they will not change what you have been through, but they can help prevent past traumas from interfering in your current and future life. People have overcome it, you can find quality help and achieve a better quality of life.

    If there is a specific incident or experience that you feel haunted or controlled by, please try to find a counselor or therapist with significant training, experience and expertise in PTSD, specifically requesting an evidence based treatment such as Prolonged Exposure therapy (PE - which sucks to endure, particularly at first, but absolutely works) Cognitive Processing Therapy (CPT) or even EMDR. Regular 'talk therapy' is not recommended for this type of thing, in Bill Zeller's case, it appears to have worsened it. Find a specialist. If you are in a rural or remote location without access, there are phone therapists who can work with local psychiatrists to stabilize, manage and remediate - with time - these feelings and experiences. You are not weak, a coward, or destined to live like this forever. There is help.

    Mr Zeller clearly was exposed to inadequate therapeutic interventions, with tragic results. Like Batman says, therapy works, not in a day or a week, but over time. If you find someone good, if you stick to it, you will find yourself getting better with more good days than bad, more and more over time. It can get better.

    3) People need to read this letter again and again, and understand that an absolutely astounding number of combat veterans are going to return with a similar load of symptoms - inability to sleep, recurrent memories, disconnection from others, shame, anger, guilt, alcohol oversue, hyperarousal and so on. It will impede their ability to successfully hold down a job, relationship or schooling.

    It is projected that one in five will have full-on PTSD. if 2 million serve in combat, that is 400,000 men and women with this sort of thing going on. For veterans without PTSD, my hats are off - I dont really see how 80% will NOT have it, but thats a different discussion.... the point is, please be aware of the public health s***storm we're going to be dealing with, the related problems, and the importance of supporting veterans as the return and readjust into society. THe vietnam generation really got crapped on, but their suffering and experiences have provided a greatly improved understanding of the biology, psychology and treatment of PTSD for the two million-plus OEF/OIF warfighters.

    One terrific way to NOT support people with traumatic stress, and to further stigmatize the condition, is not get into some preposterous discussion about whether or not suicide is a cowardly act. It is a great way of avoiding the real issues of human trauma and tragedy, feeling in control of someone else pain through moral superiority, relieving guilt, and generally 'not going there.'

    I have no idea how the most important issue raised in this thread is whether or not this main is a coward, or if his note is 'fair' to those he alleges - compellingly, by the way - have either caused or not helped him through an indescribably awful emotional experience. I mean, its amazingly how quick some of us ignore the experience of the victim.

    While I am lecturing, I might vote that some folks here give a little more 'there by the grace of god go i' to those whose experiences we do not share. And to some of the overposters, might suggest that you apply a "does this need to be said" test before posts, basketball or otherwise. Literally tens of thousands of posts with judgements and 'just giving my two cents' are really really self-aborbed and out of tune with substantive, thoughtful discussion. I would really recommend that certain people reverse the ratio of 'listening' to 'typing' I gotta say, it turns my stomach and makes me not want to read or post here. Please please raise the criteria for what constitutes a 'thought worth posting' versus 'something running through my head right now.'
     
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  13. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    How is it inspirational? I am trying to read it from that perspective and I can't see it all.

    If anything I think a guy like Jason Ellis on Sirius radio is a much, much, much more inspirational guy. He openly talks about being molested. He is a skater guy with tons of tattoos who has a raunchy radio show, but he openly talks about being forced to blow his uncle, how his mother didn't believe he was molested, how he had repressed the memories for years, and how he got over them.
     
  14. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Member

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    Myes myes now that the emotional gates are open and the tears are flowing, I would like to share a story of my own.

    On a dark, chilly winter night I found myself engulfed by my pantry and chowing down on everything around me. Reeces, wafers, bonbons, flour, accumulations of dust... Nothing was free from my cravings and the voracious feelings inside me that fueled this. I even started attacking the crumbs when I was done and the plastic packaging, bit by bit, was gone too.

    I knew there was something abnormal but did not know who to confide in. What if my secret was out? What would the community say? This was my curse alone, and my gift, and only I would be able to carry it's burden. I crawled into the fetal position using a bag of doritos as a pillow and cried myself to sleep.

    20 years later, I realized plastic is not digestable and that was probably why I hadn't gone to the bathroom in 25 days. I checked myself into the ER where I was diagnosed with binge eating disorder. My secret was out. The local paper was already preparing a story on it, and soon things would go national... Maybe even global. The world would know who I truly was: a human pig. How could I rejoin society after such a tumultuous experience?

    So here I am today. Asking you to look deeply into your souls and love me for the vagabond that I am. In a society where eating non bio degradeable items is frowned upon, where it makes you even more isolated than a murderer. For murderers have prison inmates to speak with; I only have nutrition labels and the sneers of those around me to deal with.

    I just want to be loved.
     
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  15. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    I'd rather someone write a suicide note than to just kill themselves and leave nothing.

    My friend that I grew up with died of an apparent suicide this past September on his birthday. First time I ever had to deal with someone close to me dying. I wish he had left a note just explaining some of his troubles.
     
  16. dandorotik

    dandorotik Member

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    You're absolutely right- just the thought repulses me.

    I could never commit suicide. Can't watch Rockets games when you're dead. That's not being glib, I like my team that much.
     
  17. liljojo

    liljojo Member

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    Are people actually defending his decision to kill himself?

    I'd love to hear what some posters' advice to him would be to him if they had read this before his suicide.

    "Dang, your life sucks dude. I feel for you. Your situation is pretty much hopeless. There's most likely no way out, and even if there is, it's probably gonna be really difficult. Might as well shoot yourself and be done with it. Don't pay attention to the people who want you to stick it out. They've never been raped before. Here, use my gun. Gun laws in Texas hardly exist at all."

    I mean really people? You realize we're talking about SUICIDE here, right? There are no respawns...
     
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I think you're reading this wrong.

    I don't see anyone defending it...they're just asking that others not judge it. And for an acknowledgement of the reality that we can never fully know what this guy was dealing with, because we didn't walk in his shoes. I don't think anyone here is suggesting suicide is a good thing.
     
  19. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    I see what you are saying, but I disagree it was a mental illness. Being scared isn't a mental illness. He was a scared person from the abuses he suffered. Scared to tell anyone about what happened. He didn't want to feel completely exposed and naked to the world and allow others to find out what happened to him. He probably also harbored feelings of embarrassment too. It's sad that the victim is the one who feels embarrassed and afraid to talk about these terrible abuses after they happen.

    He wasn't able to ever develop coping mechanisms like what CBrown talks about in that great post he wrote. It's a sad situation when the abuser wins.
     
  20. VooDooPope

    VooDooPope Love > Hate

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    Bottom line is it's hard for anyone who hasn't experienced it to understand this type of suffering.

    I'm not saying I agree with his suicide, but thanks to his note, I understand his reasoning.

    Hope he found peace on the other side.
     
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