seeing it very directly in a group i'm involved with where we try to come in and love kids without condition...seeing the effects of parents on their kids. makes me so grateful for my parents. your wife's experience reminds me of one of my wife's experiences back when i was in law school duriing her first year of teaching. she came home crying one day and she said, "i realize today that, for a lot of those kids, i'm the only who cares how're they doing." it was a tremendous burden for her, but one she met head on. love is ridiculously powerful..in its presence and its absence.
For those asking why he didn't bother talking about it: He had tried to talk about other secrets to other people, with the response being that it turned into gossip. The whole sexual orientation secret being turned into juicy gossip ordinarily isn't a huge deal; but to someone who is struggling with an even darker secret, it's justification to not tell someone about what they're dealing with. Not everything can be analyzed in a vacuum. Like many of the other members of this BBS, I'm not a proponent of suicide. Nor am I calling BZ a hero or a coward. The fact remains that he was a deeply troubled individual who felt that he had no other way out. He couldn't have normal relationships, so us asking why didn't he do this, why didn't he do that is completely irrelevant. Looking at it from his perspective, he HAD exhausted all options. It's nice to think that if we were in the same situation we'd do things differently, and yes there are people who survive similar situations or much worse to go on to lead "normal" lives. But most of us haven't been in that situation, so we don't know how we would act; we only know how we think we'd act and can get on a soapbox/high horse for that. I have a lot of friends who I've come to know were molested when they were younger, and many of them are troubled, even if on the outside they seem like fine functioning people. But many of them have trouble in relationships, romantic or not. Trusting people is a very difficult thing for them to do, and this is for people who were not raped at the tender age of 3. Most of the people I know were molested closer to or in their teenage years and even they have difficulties that they struggle through. Imagine having your first memory being raped at the age of 3 when you don't know what's really going on, and how that would skew your perspective on things... zlic - not trying to get on your case, but if you're really comparing someone who committed suicide because a high school girlfriend dumped him to someone who lived with the demon of getting raped at 3 years old, then I don't know what to say. Yes, committing suicide because a high school sweet heart spurned you is cowardly. But you don't think that it comes closer to the line of "maybe there was a reason for it" when it's because he's been struggling for 23 years with being raped? I don't really think I can make a post better or more eloquently than some of the fine folk on the board (Bats, ManRam), so I'll stop my rambling now.
Out of curiosity, why is it cowardly to not try hard to keep your life going? Is it cowardly to not want to be kept on respirators? Is it cowardly to opt out of chemotherapy? Why is it "cowardly" of him not to keep his life going? I guess I don't see why any of us are obligated to keep our life going here for another person. He wasn't married and he didn't have kids. Those are the people that you owe it to to live.
i can't rep you anymore or katalina since she's not a member, but y'all are inspirational. i really need to get back involved in family point in someway...even if it's just going to these kids games.
I don't see why anyone would think he has to be either or. You are right, he was not heroic, nor was he a coward. He opted to not hurt, not to be someone's hero.
Truth. I have a friend who has been hospitalized repeatedly for emotional health issues related to childhood trauma. She has been on every imaginable medication and tried every type of therapy. None worked. The meds or practices that might help her haven't been invented yet. She was raised in an extremely wealthy family and had an exorbitant trust fund. After exhausting a lot of it on mental health care she turned to illegal drugs to ease her suffering. She is out of money now and her family blames her, not her abusers, for her alienation. She has not committed suicide, but her life is not "a gift," nor is it "precious." She has spent more than two years in prison for non-violent, drug-related crimes. She is homeless in a state very far from her home town now, alternating between sobriety and/or methadone and a junkie's life. She has reached out to everyone she's ever met and dozens of professionals. Having run out of the money to see professionals (and having given up on the idea they can help - especially the ones available to the destitute) and having been rejected by all of her former friends due to the inexcusable behavior that is inevitable from a junkie (even I have very limited communication with her now because I too have exhausted all means of comfort or understanding I could provide - on the first, second and hundredth time that you watch a friend return to self-destructive behavior you give up because you have no other option), she is alone, suffering every minute. But she remains "alive." How "precious." What a "gift."
He may not have been "selfish", but never confronted his problems or told anyone what was wrong. He had too many preconceived notions about everything he did in his life. He put a wall because of the horrible things that were done to him and it killed him.
Some people need to grow up and quit following the old saying of "suicide is cowardly" taught by your parents and religious teachers. If you find yourself not able to answer the questions "why is suicide cowardly", then you need to get a mind of your own.
Please don't say he never confronted his problems. He seems to have confronted them constantly and was fully aware of them and where they came from.
I think he was resigned to not being able to trust people, but who wouldn't if you couldn't help but act differently and everyone else picked it up? He didn't want to be cocktail discussion at a shrink meeting either. I've read somewhere that the personality of a person usually sets in around age 4 barring some extreme outside occasion.
The real selfish pricks are the cowards that come into this thread offended that they had to feel sad for the day or two before they completely forget the man's name. Instead, they would rather him suffer a lifetime of agony. Oh, but peacefully and mindful of others while keeping it to himself though, so that you can live your life blissfully without being bothered by the troubles of others. In no way do I condone suicide. But for so many who say "there is no good that can come from suicide", no there is no good for you when he kills himself. Now you feel bad. But for him, the one who carries his burden alone, there was no good that could come in life. What saddens me even more than his death is that so many do not even get that. The whole point in him articulating his thoughts was to show people a fraction of what he was going through, even if it was only scratching the surface. To show that his act was neither senseless nor cowardly. Quite the opposite. For his message to fall on deaf ears means he has wasted his dying breath. Sad. His death was not sad. He is relieved of his suffering and at peace now. It is his life that was truly sad.
If we could all gather around in a circle and join hands, we will be led in the chanting of kumbaya, the lord loves us, by batman jones, justyank and madmax. Please, silence at the back.
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya Oh Lord, kumbaya Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya Oh Lord, kumbayah Hey wait a minute...Max? Batman? Where are you guys! Ronny told me you'd join in!
He never spoke to anyone about being raped. He made sure to never tell anyone, because he was afraid of how they would treat him and how they would talk about him. He assumed he knew how everyone would treat him because of being raped and molested. You can't fix abuses by holding them in and fighting a war against yourself. You have to work through your emotions with the help of others in horrible situations like this. You have to take a leap of faith and truth that people can and will help. He did not want to live because of what happened to him as a child. That was his choice to kill himself. And don't act like he tried everything to get past his abuse, because he didn't.
Well could you start singing already? My voice sounds like something out tales from the crypt and I'd hate to cause some of these jokers any further offense!
You seem to be under the impression that if you are not talking to someone about your emotions you are not trying to work through them. That is where I would disagree with you.
is there a checklist that depressed or mentally anguished people must go through before they get the ok to kill themselves?
