London'sBurning, I respect the strength you've shown despite the adversity you've faced. It takes a big man to share deeply personal things with strangers. As Batman Jones said, thank you.
So if it is not new and relatively less tragic than more horrifying things, it is wrong for people to find this interesting. Got it.
I never said it was wrong to find it interesting. I just said I don't see what the big deal is. EDIT: Let me clarify. People in this thread were ready to turn this into a huge debate over whether he was a hero or a coward (he was neither). They argued whether suicide is always wrong or sometimes justifiable (it's nobody's place to say this for sure). Some said that nobody could understand what he was going through (even though there were people in this thread who shared a similar experience and were able to post that experience because they hadn't killed themselves). Some said that therapy can cure all trauma, while others said there is some trauma that can't be cured by anything. Blah, blah, blah. He was just a guy. A deeply troubled guy, but still just a guy. He made a choice that's available to any of us, at any time, for any reason. He did it to himself, none of you were effected, and he did it for his own reasons. They weren't unique reasons, but they were his. So where's the argument? Accept this story for what it is, wish the best for those of us still living, and move on.
So who molested him? I didn't read the whole thing, but I never got it figured out who molested him. He should have stayed alive and write stories, with his writing ability. Someone told me when she fled Vietnam, when her ship was in Thailand, the pirates gang raped a women right in front of her husband and everyone else. But that woman didn't commit suicide.
Agreed. RIP. Child molesting can destroy a life and deprive society of much potential, like any traumatic event such as war. Now move on. Although I think it depends more on one's awareness of what a bad place the world can be. If you're aware of the things people can do to one another like genocide, human trafficking, abject poverty, and so on, than his tragic death seems small in comparison. Besides, the man grew up in America, attended schools like Trinity and Princeton, had many who loved and respected him in his line of work, etc. A friend who works at Amnesty International has told me dozens of cases of children who had atrocious acts committed against them and their loved ones. I remember this one where a boy sees his mother and sister raped and killed, he also gets raped and is forced to be a child soldier, but he survived the ordeal, and is now a teacher in some central African country.
"Though my problems are meaningless, that don't make them go away." - Neil Young What exactly is the point of noting that others have 'had it worse' than Zeller? This reminds me of my drinking days. On occasion I'd try to excuse myself from the bar before last call because I had to be up early the next day, at which point someone would inevitably argue that they had to get up even earlier. What did that have to do with my situation? Nothing. All pain is relative and emotional pain is especially so. I'm not here to argue with anyone, but a litmus test that requires X amount of pain in order to justify exercising self-determination in the ending of one's own life is patently absurd. It is equally absurd to say, oh well, that was that, others have it worse, so let's move on. Move on to what exactly? If death and suicide aren't subjects worthy of our interest and attention it's difficult to imagine a subject that would be.
Thanks again for sharing that. I am wondering have you ever considered martial arts? You mentioned you exercised but looked to it for improving body image but for people who have gone through what you and Bill Zeller did martial arts may help. Certainly the exercise you get out of it will help with body image but it could also help build confidence and mental calmness. It also could help with trust issues. I have known several people who have troubled past who have found martial arts to help them deal with their personal issues. For me personally I find strength, physical, mental and spiritual, from the practice, rituals and camaraderie of martial arts. Of course a lot of this depends on the school and the instructor but there are a lot of martial arts schools in Austin and ask around and I am sure you can find a good reputable school.
Sounds good. I haven't been keeping up with the Rockets as much as I'd like lately. Usually I'm able to get the NBA Package to watch their games but its not in the budget this season. I also want to thank everyone for the kind words said in private and on here. I'm a big MMA fan but have not tried out a Martial Art. I'll look into it.
Yes, perfect. Exactly. "let's move on" is avoidance of the issue. London - tremendous tremendous post. I am glad you told your story, privilege to read the honest account. Let us know if we can ever be of assistance, but from what I can tell from reading that, you have the strength and wisdom to endure, thrive and help others. And to educate those who have not been through anything like that.
There are plenty of good places teaching MMA but I would recommend a traditional art. MMA is good but I find that the cultural and philosophical practices of traditional arts help to provide structure.
Finally read it. Just a failure on so many levels of so many people by so many institutions I will not play the I'ma Comparative Victim game. I do not know the severity of Bill Zeller's experience. I DO KNOW about holding in lifelong SECRECIES and not wanting to be a "open book" to everyone in the world. Quick stated opinions before I get too rambly - Its plainly obvious his father or close family member did this to him. He is still trying to protect the family's good name. If it were a family friend or stranger or someone more distant, greater chance he'da probably come out with it. Its almost like his own personal game of "Don't Snitch", don't rat out the family. Thats the part that bothers me and why I think most people think this seems incomplete. - His whole foundation was ruined from the start Its like a bad disk burn, once its finalized then thats just what it is.. The human condition isnt so permanent, but he was in a sense "finalized" a long time ago. Only he would know how much, we can only speculate. - The religion absolutely played at part in it. He basically learned from a young age how to have a public image and private persona copied from the HORRIBLE misrepresentation of morality from his supposed wholesome family. ( He probably had someone tell him that already but by the time he heard it it didnt mean anything...) I'm saying that the religious morality actually taught him how to be a good guy. He knew right from wrong. He KNEW HONOR. Thats why he didnt want to "dishonor" himself, life, other people and his family. - Because he knew what honor and perfection is, he was always going to see himself as damaged goods separated away from that. He saw himself as BAD person and a MONSTER. Thats terribly sad. Cuz he couldnt reciprocate trust he just cast himself as useless. Anyway, I said I wouldnt get rambly. This is also in a sense how facts and intelligence can bury you deeper. Hard truth is all he knew. All his facts studies confirmed he was damaged, so damaged is what he had to be ... I think his only hope was to make himself the open book he didnt want to be, and live a perverted version of life that doesnt make any "sense".
Though it did have - Spoiler Twice the MEGA Power of other sadnesses, please be appriopriate and considerate ...
