You're deluding yourself. We're not on the same level with any of those three teams from the West that Walton mentioned. I completely agree with Walton here. All he did was list the three best teams in the West (by far, if I might add) along with the two best teams out East. Not rocket science, just common sense. Think about it a bit and it will come to you.
right for rockets to win the championship they have to go through Jazz, Mavs, then suns or spurs.... very very tough without homecourt while pistons and heat basically just play against each other
At this point, I'm gonna guess the Bulls and Wizards will be tougher for the Pistons than the Heat. It's possible Miami will not be a factor in the playoffs. IMO, the Bulls can definitely beat the Pistons if they avoid scoring droughts on offense. The Wizards have proven they can beat the Pistons. I don't know why, but whenever I see them play each other the Wizards always win. Yet it's hard to imagine the Wizards closing the Pistons out in a playoff series.
why is miami in the conversation? they're not even guaranteed to make the playoffs. is dwayne wade going to will them from the f#$king sidelines? not that some people here wouldn't predict that from him. the list of potential champions is: the first 5 teams in the west and detroit. back on topic, walton isn't meant to be taken seriously so i don't often get too upset with him. lets not forget that he's genuinely been a huge yao fan from before we drafted and was a vocal supporter in his early years. that's good enough for me. also legler is a real dumbass if he really didn't mention dream in his top 5 centers. the little respect i had for him is completely out the window.
miami is in conversation because even at the 8th seed IF they have WADE they can win the East, which is so bad this year..... the dude cannot be stopped thanks to whatever he has done to or with the referees, it is really embarassing the phantom foul calls he gets right now Walton is probably right, the rox have a month to get Yao back in the mix and get rolling if so they maybe then deserve to at least be mention above the other western playoff team (6-8) and maybe in the same sentence as the Spurs
yes we are but to win the CHAMPIONSHIP... rockets have to go through 3 very very good teams while detroit has a much easier road to the finals and then only has to beat 1 west team to win it. how do you not understand that?
Wow... Couldn't have said it better myself. Though Airplane did a pretty good job. No one's saying that Kareem isn't great. I'm just saying Hakeem is better.
'86 was at the tail end of Kareem's career when he was 38 years old. When Hakeem was 38 he was averaging 11 and 7 and earning a see you later from the Rockets. Kareem had 6 MVPs and 6 titles, Hakeem had 1 and 2. Kareem won the NCAA championship every year he played, Hakeem got close once and lost to NC State. Kareem had a higher peak and played at a top level longer than Hakeem. Hakeem had more steals, and that's it. Hakeem was a great player, but Kareem was one of the top 2 players of all time.
I agree with you for the most part. I was not fair comparing Hakeem ot Kareem in 1986. I will argue however that Hakeem Olajuwon never had the coaching staff Kareem did, Hakeem faced a higer level of competition than Kareem did, and Hakeem never had the talent level around him that Kareem did. You are right that Kareem is probably one of the top players-we will never know how Hakeem would compare in a similar era, with similar talent, and Pat Riley at his peak pushing hm to excell. I think that I can make the argument that Hakeem was a guard playing in a 6' 10" body. He was defensive player of the year- he could play both ends of the court and dominate both ends. Do you really think Hakeem had as much talent around him as consistently as the Lakers or UCLA had around Kareem??? I would argue the Rockets would never have even gotten a championship if Steve PAtterson had gotten his wish and traded Hakeem for Rony Seikaly... It took the owner- Charlie Thomas to patch things up on a 12 hour plane ride to Tokyo...... I think Kareem had advantages that Dream never had. Kareem scored more points and more blocked shots, more rebounds, more everything and I would rather have Hakeem at his peak that Kareem Abdul jabaar at his peak.
Doesn't matter if we're better or not, the point is they're in the EAST, which means they have a much easier road to the finals and therefore a higher likelihood of winning a championship. Walton's premise was the three best teams out West that have the best chance of getting to the finals, and the only two teams out East with any chance of winning it all. It's really not too complicated...
We can really only look at what people actually did, not what they might have done under different circumstances. What if Wilt Chamberlain had access to the training and nutritional advances that were available in the '80s and '90s. What if David Robinson had started in the NBA right after college? What if Sabonis had not spent his prime in Russia? The fact is that what Kareem did on the court was superior to what Hakeem did on the court, whatever factors led to that happening. Hakeem was twice the DPOY and once MVP, Kareem was 6 times the MVP and was also no slouch on defense, being on the all-defense first or second team 11 times (to Hakeem's 9 by the way). Well, I don't know that UCLA had a second banana the quality of Clyde Drexler, but Kareem certainly had better pro teams, at least in his championship seasons. Proving that Hakeem was better than Rony Seikaly. Hakeem's best year was probably '93, when he had 26.1 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 4.2 bpg, 1.8 spg and 3.5 apg. Kareem's best year was probably '76 when he had 27.7 ppg, 16.9 rpg, 4.1 bpg, 1.5spg and 5.1 apg. Hakeem had the advantage of 0.1 bpg and 0.3 spg, while Kareem got you an extra 1.6 points, 3.9 boards and 1.6 assists. You might rather have Hakeem at his peak, but Kareem was better at his peak. Um, why do you think that is funny? He would have needed to average 160.25 blocks per season his first 4 seasons to tie Hakeem. He got well over that mark every year for the next 10 seasons (the first 10 that BS were kept as a statistic), including 5 times when he topped 260. You would have to be some kind of r****d to think Hakeem actually blocked more shots than Kareem. I don' know, maybe you where laughing at my use of the word probably. Here you go: Kareem definitely blocked more shots than Hakeem.
Stupid Moniker: I'm not going to quote each item. You beat me when you asserted we could only compare what they actually did on the court. What was recorded.There can be no doubt that Kareem dominates the records like no other. I guess one reason I would have rather had Hakeem was that he could do more with less. As a rookie Kareem had an older-but still very capable Oscar Robinson on Milwaukee. At LA he had consistently dominating teams around him that would have dominated even had he not been on the team. I will offer that there were fewer quality big men at the time. I.E. his man to man competition did not equal that that Olajuwaon faced. The Rockets had some real garbage teams around Olajuwon for years. Texas being a football state - for some reason the Rocket's owner Charlie Thomas did not heavily invest in quality players around Hakeem. It is testament to Hakeem that he was able to carry the team to a championship. I will argue argue that Hakeem had attributes that Kareem never had-that cannot be quantified..Footspeed, sheer strength, hand quickness, and defensive prowess. Other than blocking shots- I do not see Kareem in the same defensive category as Hakeem. As we can only compare what they accomplished on the court-Kareem is superior hands down.
Numbers...the most overrated way to measure a players greatness. Let's just take a step back and think about Hakeem for a minute, think of what he was able to do on the floor. Here we have a 6'11/7ft athlete, putting the ball on the floor from just inside the arc, taking his man baseline, imagine his defender, having no idea what Hakeem will do, think you've got him covered for a fallaway? Nope, Dream was settin' you up for the up and under, think you've cut him off going to the key? nope, dream was settin' you up to spin off your ass and throw down. The beauty of Hakeems game was that there was nothing you could do, i compare him to the great Roger Federer in that his ability to create something out of nothing has never been seen by a man his size before him or since his retirement. This was a guy who could knock down an 18 footer with ease, he could put the ball on the floor and pull up for the J in the blink of an eye, easily the best shooting big man until Dirk came along (but they play a different game). And in the crunch, you could rely on this man to knock down his free throws, to lead his team to victory. Not needing to rely on a superstar guard because his inability to win at 15ft would cost his team the game. Defensively the man was on another level. His multiple DPOY awards don't do him justice, these days all you have to do is lead the league in rebounding or blocks and you're guaranteed the trophy. Hakeem was a nightmare, you think switching would work on Hakeem? He had the speed, agility and length to defend a PG for the entire shot clock if necessary, don't forget Dream's biggest defensive play ever was switching off a screen and recovering to block John Starks. This was a 7 footer who could freely pick the pocket of an opposing PG if they were isolated on each other and take the ball the length of the court for the basket (though his open court handle left a bit to be desired). This was a 7 footer who chased down opposing players to swat their ball into the stands. But he was more than blocks, rebounds and steals. His defensive IQ is still the greatest amongst big men to ever play the game. His blocks weren't achieved by virtue of being extra tall, being a beast amongst men or only challenging from the weak side; it was a matter of timing and rhythm, knowing when not to bite on pump fakes,he was able to read plays defensively ahead of time, the way Magic read the offense. I could go on, but i've made my point. Don't judge a single player by his championships in a team sport, don't use stats to compare players from different eras, watch the game, and you'll realise that no center has brought it from both ends of the floor, with such agility, intelligence, determination and unselfishness as Hakeem Olajuwon.
thank goodness for clutch fans. net. I have been working in my yard yesterday and today-putting 95 bags of hardwood mulch in 3" depth in flower beds, cutting limbs, spreading weed and feed, digging up Sega palm root bulbs, and built a scaffold around a palm tree to cut the old limbs off. During my breaks - frequent I may add- I have enjoyed engaging in pointless argument about things that really do not matter in the real world. This has taken my mind off my sore back. This is therapeutic. Hard work-digging in the dirt and escape from reality in sports minutia. Outstanding. Life is good. thank you Stupid Moniker!
I have to say, in terms of body of work (i.e. college and NBA), I think Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- aka Lou Alcindor -- was the greatest basketball player to ever play the game. He was more productive for a longer period of time, and won more, than almost every other player in league history outside of Bill Russell. He won on every level and has quite possibly the most unstoppable signature move the game has ever seen. I think Kareem is often overlooked because of number of factors, among which is the fact that he played a significant portion of his professional career during an era when little attention was paid to the NBA, the fact that he played with media darling Magic Johnson, and because of his overall demeanor during his playing days (i.e. a loner, not media-friendly, more into Jazz than rock n roll, involved in civil rights but otherwise not very vocal on or off the court). Kareem wasn't 'sexy', but I am still in awe of what he was able to accomplish throughout his playing career. I think when comparing Kareem to Dream, you would almost always have to go with Kareem. I really think he might have been the greatest basketball player there ever was, and in a way one of the more underrated basketball legends around; I don't think he gets his due as great as he was. But that's what the media can do: they can declare Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan as the greatest ever and we just nod our heads and accept it. It's not a knock on those players by any means, but I guess what I am trying to say is that it's far from a foregone conclusion.
