Bill Simmons NBA playoffs mailbag: Very Interesting Trade scenario for the Rox

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It is correct that Landry would have to consent to a trade if dealt before September.

However, a few corollary points --

1.) If traded before July 1, Chris Paul would have a "poison pill" contract -- by that, they could only take back his 08/09 salary (4.6m) but we would have to fit the average value of his contract going forward (roughly 15-16m). That would make a deal a little harder to work contractually, but is a minor point due to 2 below.

2.) If traded after July 7 (after July moratorium), all contracts for trade matching would roll over to 09/10 values. Paul would be BYC, but with the amount of salaries trading hands, it wouldn't be a big deal.

3.) There's no addition additional savings if the teams were to squeeze the deal in before July 1.

4.) There's no additional benefits for anyone to do the deal before September (and after Landry's right of refusal expires) other than to let the ink dry.

Most people will recall last offseason -- the Rockets got the Artest deal done, but waited 2 weeks to be able to trade Donte Greene. See: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/5914062.html

Basically, if the teams want to get it done, they can easily just wait Landry out. I could see the Hornets actually preferring to flip Landry -- his upside is awfully similar to David West.

 

not going to happen. sorry folks. chris paul will stay in n'awlins unless they really have to gut their team cause they can't afford to keep their players. the only players i'd want are posey, chandler, and paul. peja might play better under RA, so this trade is fair talent wise, and we'd come out better because now we'd have yao, ron, and paul.

 

Dude, have you missed the entire point of this 20 page thread? the whole discussion stemmed from the fact that NO is hemorrhaging money and may need to get rid of all its large, long term deals.

 

Wow. That possibility is the only reason this is even being discussed.

Again, most of us don't even want Posey or Chandler. But you take them (along with Peja) if that's the price of obtaining Chris Paul.

Seriously, did you even read the original post? Much less any of the discussion since?

 

Has Daryl Morey ever made a trade that made the team worse? If this trade is made, this would be his first one.

I'm seeing people say, don't worry, Magic Morey will find us good role players in the future, like it's so easy. You're not going to have better and cheaper role players on your team than guys like Battier, Scola, Landry, and Brooks.

It's crazy how some of you completely abandon TEAM principles just to acquire a star player. It still takes a whole team to win games, and it still takes 5. How did trading "a bunch of role players" for Charles Barkley work out?

 

Charles was way past his prime. You can't compare the two. I would do this trade. Those guys above are not significantly above average.

 

Well, first of all - you're acting like we don't actually replace much of what we lose in this trade. We don't need Brooks if we have Paul. We still have Lowry to back up Paul. We replace Landry with Tyson Chandler as a back up big. We replace Battier with Posey. Essentially, the only hole we'd desperately need to fill is Luis Scola's spot. Many believe we'd get to keep either Landry or Scola and could send them Brian Cook instead. So it's possible that we wouldn't be in dire need of any new roleplayers. Personally, despite the size of his contract, I'd probably prefer Tyson Chandler to Landry off the bench. I'd obviously rather have Battier than Posey, but it's a pretty small price to pay for the huge upgrade we get in Paul vs. Brooks.

And as to your question about trading a bunch of roleplayers for Barkley - it worked out pretty damned well. We almost made it to the Finals. It didn't work out quite as well as when we traded a bunch of roleplayers for Drexler though.

 

I would wait and see if tmac can be fully healthy. If tracy can play like he did before we dont need cp3 to run our offense. The only thing we lacked in the playoffs was a play making skill player and that what tracy brings i would rather have a healthy tmac than cp3.

 

Landry for Chandler is a downgrade. Battier for Posey is a downgrade. If we can use Cook instead of Scola, then that's fine, or maybe not if NO specifically wants Scola in the deal. If in reality this deal was being discussed, you know NO would have Scola in the mixed, with Morey trying to negotiate to leave him out.

I've also made it clear in a previous post at how New Orleans is a significantly better team with that trade if McGrady comes back remotely healthy with the role players around him and West. They're still in our division, so there's inherent risk involved.

I'd have to say the Barkley trade did NOT work, if you take a look at the awful years that transpired 1996-97. That's not a Moreyball move, and neither is this one. As for the Drexler trade, how many role players did we give up? I count one, so I don't think that's a good comparison to make (we actually gained a role player in that trade with Tracy Murray). With the Bill Simmons trade, we're giving up FOUR starters from last season.

 

Is everyone who's leery about this non-trade(since NO would have to be on crack to make this move) realizing that we'd get CP3?

I mean, we are talking about Chris Paul here, right? You know, only the best point guard in the league. Only a player with basically no weakness. Can pass, shoot, drive... Easily the best player to ever play on this Rockets team since the Dream was still around?

Why is everyone comparing this to the Barkley trade, or even the Francis trade? My god we're talking about CHRIS FREAKING PAUL here. Putting a just-drafted Francis and an over-the-hill Barkley next to his name is just blasphemous.

 

no, just thought i'd put in my 2 cents.

 

We would be loosing scola and battier who are up there in age and only have a couple years left...
Aaron Brooks is inferior to paul in every attribute...
Landry is a type of player you can find anywhere(glen davis, hakkiem warrick, tyrus thomas, etc)...
And that being said i think they prefer cook's contract to maximize there savings rather that have a crowded 4, so we would get to keep one of those players...

Losing four role players would be the price you pay for getting a future hall of fame superstar..
Those types players only come around about every couple decades...
You mentioned it's not that easy to get those types of role players well way harder to get those types of superstars... and if you have the option to get him before he even reaches 25 and hasn't even got to his prime yet, you do it because that never happens...
Some teams Never Ever get one....
Paul not only gives us a chance to contend for a championship, he would also increase our window of being competitive for many years...
Our new Big Three(Artest would be a great third option) would Challenge the lakers and Cavs and be a force to be reckoned with....
That means we wouldn't have to go through a lottery year when Yao declines...
Chris Paul is one of the best point guards to come out since Magic Johnson... You don't say no to that...
Role players are replicable, You have to pray to get Superstars at that level...

And the Barkley trade is not a good comparison imo....
Barkley was past his prime and on the decline...
Paul isn't even close to his prime yet he is already a superstar, Future Hall of Famer, and MVP candidate...
I'm not saying i think it's going to happen... I'm just saying if we were to get this type of deal i think it would be wise to take it...

Superstars are the most successful in this League, Stern makes sure of it....

 

Yeah, why would people complain about trading half of your damn team for Chris Paul? I mean, we all know one superstar can single-handedly carry a team to a championship, right? Oh wait, no. In fact, he should pat himself on the back for being the starting PG of a playoff team that lost by 58 points at home. We all know name value is all it takes to win rings these days

 

Chris Paul is young and can only get better...
And IF he were traded to the rox he wouldn't have to carry this team on his own because we have 2(assuming we resign Artest) capable stars that can lend a hand with the load...
Yao>West
Artest>.....Peja?
MOREY>>>>>Jeff Bower

and it's not like we would only be getting paul...

Tyson Would be a great Backup C/PF that would limit yao's minutes which reduces the chances of him having another injury.... He would also provide Shot blocking and rebounding alongside yao.... Not to mention hes a 7 footer...

Posey isnt even close to Battier but would be a decent replacement...

Peja is trash but he can't do any worse under Alderman where he had his best years.....

And i trust Morey to get more pieces out of nothing....

 

Call me nuts but I'm actually torn on this one. Getting Paul would give us a top PG for years to come, but losing our core group of role players would hurt our chances for a championship for at least the next two seasons. In the long term, Morey would probably figure out how to get the right pieces around the Paul/Yao core, but how many seasons can Yao wait for that to happen?

Since we're talking pipe dreams, I think something like the TMac for Iguodala and Dalembert trade, which was mentioned in another thread, is more enticing to me. I'm not sure if Iggy would be the guy, but I really think the right wing player and a backup big with size could put this team in the finals next year.

 

This isn't some 6 for 1 deal. That only happens in baseball. We are getting good players back. Overpaid players, but good players nonetheless.

And so you think CP3 isn't good enough to bring us a championship, but the likes of Landry/Brooks/Scola/Battier will? What kind of messed up logic is this? It's a good thing our GM is smart enough to realize that finding role players(see Boston following KG/RA deals) is much easier than finding superstars.

 

Is CP3 good enough to win us a championship? Maybe. But not anytime soon. Not anytime soon after completely annihilating our depth and versatility just to acquire him. Morey would be completely destroying his current project and starting a new one, and that's not what GMs of his type do. It's just not a Moreyball kind of move. Yao + CP3 is not championship material with the supporting cast around them.

 

Based on several posts over the last 15 pages or so, I thought I'd repost the last part of the Simmons blurb...

If you accept this thesis (which I do), it means Paul either goes now or later and everyone knows it. Best for NO not to let it fester and get out from under some of those contracts as soon as possible. Also, the more publicly disaffected Paul becomes, the more other teams will try to lowball the Hornets. I think there is a very good chance Paul is dealt this summer.

McGrady (nothing), Barry (maybe a little locker room leadership), Cook (nothing), Brooks (replaced by Paul), Landry (superb bench player), and Battier (great D and leadership) should be enough to get Chandler, Peja, and Paul. That means you're essentially trading Landry and Battier for a huge upgrade at PG and a decent front court player who could spell Yao. You may also get a decent second team sharpshooter who could take advantage of inexperienced players on the other team during the 2nd quarter. That's a damn good deal basketballwise.

If Battier is part of the deal, the Hornets flip him right away, as he has a decent salary and is not worth much to them in terms of basketball. (Maybe to Portland for some of their bench players?)

Now, looking at the NO payroll, West also has a sizable contract and we all seem to be thinking that he'll stay. But if they trade Paul, I think they will also trade West for financial reasons. In this light, the call for both Scola and Landry makes sense as West makes more than both combined... but if this thing ever got close, I would hope Morey would be able to keep one of Scolandry.

All this said, we're talking about peripheral stuff here people. The true future of the Rockets will depend on whether Morey can resign Jackie Butler.

 

I think losing Scola is the real hang up for most people on this board, atleast I know it is for me.

 

Who cares? You think what we have NOW is championship material? The last time I checked, we got bounced and our 2 best players can't stay healthy to save their lives.

Also, Morey never had any "projects" to begin with. His entire tenure has been an unending search for players who need little money nor high picks to obtain. That has nothing to do with the trade. If anything, this trade HELPS him do more of the same. Good role players matter when they're one of the top 8-9 players on your team. But depth beyond that is pointless(see Memphis early 2000, Portland, etc.)

The Rockets doesn't need depth right now. We need STARS.