This is a different debate but not all of the Founding Fathers faith in God was the same. Keep in mind then "Christianity" was synonymous with "Civilized" that didn't mean that all of the Founders had a literalist view of the Bible. In fact Thomas Jefferson made an edited version of the Bible where he took out what he thought was miraculous. Of course Christians have the same rights as others. What Christians often can't differentiate is official prayer versus individual prayer that doesn't mean that Christians rights are somehow under attack. [edit]I see Nook has beat me and posted the same thing.
Well the problem is America will eventually be what some parts of Asia is where its illegal to even start a church and to share the Bible and what it teaches. A time not too long ago, you could ask anyone about the Bible in schools and they could tell you what it was. Can you imagine once our children's children have children of their own and go to school, the worse "Bible" could be prohibited all together. It's like Santa Claus because you can't prove it exist. With the world becoming more of a fact-based mindset, wanting solid proof in their hands to believe anything... the church numbers are dwindling fast. I can honestly tell you that being in a good church has opened my eyes. Alot of churches and Christians aren't living the Christian life. They walk around with stones in their hands waiting to cast them at other sinners and point out what others are doing wrong. Fact is, the Bible states everyone is a sinner and the devil himself is making a case to God every day and night about why none of us deserve eternal life. My pastor told a story a few weeks back about how there is a preacher from another state who wants to build a new church in the area. He had asked other churches and got discouraging answers one after another because we have too many churches in the area as it is. Either they seriously thought we had too many, or they didn't want to fight over attendance numbers in the congregation. My pastors eyes watered up as he looked around the hundred or so people in the restaurant they were meeting in and he shook his head because my pastor has been here for over 10 years and he didn't recognize not one person in that restaurant. He cried out to the pastor wanting to move to the area and said we need help. We live in such a small community but we need help reaching out and touching people. The church is so quickly to talk down on the LGBT community when in actuality the Bible teaches not to judge, we're not the judge. We're the ones who are suppose to be spreading love and here we are as a church rejecting that group of people just because we don't have the same opinions as they do. We're all sinners, period. From someone who has attended a public school just a few years ago who handed out free Bibles to anyone who wanted one, can clearly see any talk about Creation/God is trying to be eliminated while it is OK for people of the Islam faith to take time to practice religious activities as it is done in their religion. The Bible does speak of this in revelations but its mind boggling to see how many people just don't see it.
Not having official prayer in school is no way close to what is going on in China. Also what the Bible is can certainly be taught in school. The difference is it can't be taught as truth. The problem I see with this line of arguments is that Christians can't see the institutional advantages that they've had before so now that they are being treated as every other religion they read it as an attack. I would no more expect that Dhama Pada is taught as truth in school or that the Heart Sutra is chanted every morning over the PA system than I would that the Bible or the Lord's Prayer is.
Our Bill of Rights prevents your doomsday scenario from happening. The same Bill of Rights is what makes it legal for you to espouse your faith without fear of reprisal. However, the same document also enshrines protection from your faith in civic-backed gatherings (like public schools) for the very fear that your religion will be unjustly imposed on others. The Bible, as a historical document, will never be outlawed in public schools. Neither will the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita or the Torah. However, it will never be preached as historical truth in favor of other holy texts. This is how it should be in a public school. The persecution complex of some American Christians is truly something to behold. Imagine if they actually lived in a society that didn't guarantee them the right to praise God openly.
When you come here acting like Christians are being persecuted in this country, it is offensive. My only response is WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! Someone said it perfectly above. You don't want equal treatment, you want preferential treatment. You view equal treatment as an attack on Christianity.
I think it sucks that some people think you need to believe in this silly creationism concept on how the world was started in order to also believe in a loving God. To be athiest and believe in no God takes just as much faith as believing in God. To believe in evolution/big bang over creationism takes no faith, just scientific facts and a little bit of intelligence.
Fair enough. Christians aren't the only people who make spectacular claims without providing spectacular evidence. That seems to be religious ppl in general.
That sounds nice and sweet, but that is not true. It takes no extra effort to not believe in something for which one sees no evidence. It takes no faith to not believe in the spaghetti monster or Santa Clause. It takes me no extra energy to not believe there is a Grizzly bear in my backyard at this very moment. But it does for me to believe UFOs visit me in my sleep. The equivalence argument is weak and unnecessary in arguing for faith. The argument ignores the very point of faith. It is believing in something for which the evidence does not exist. It is a different system of knowing -- if one want to call it that at all. I think it is very fair for you to point out that people conflate the doctrinal strictures of their religion with the concept of God, theistic or deist. Those are different things. You can point out the generic, pagan, nature of Christianity/Scientology/Hinduism/[Insert Religion] and its obvious man-made roots, without making an argument about the existence of God. One can believe in "God" and then have an interesting discussion about what that actually means. Is it theistic or deistic in nature? Interventionist or watchmaker? Intelligent or Einstein-ian? Alien god? But this creationist vs. reality thing is just silly. Why can't religious doctrinal conjecture evolve with the ongoing and developing human understanding of the world via science?
That group is largely populated by those who think Obama is a dictator. Imagine if they actually lived in a country where they could be picked up from their homes and murdered due to the person they support politically. What's even more ironic is these people would love to treat non-Christians the same way the British did those who didn't subscribe to their specific religious teachings during the colonial times.
This is a bad idea from Bill Nye. I hope he realizes that he is just engaging in a publicity stunt that might benefit both causes from a fundraising point of view. If he doesn't realize that, he should know better. If he does realize it and is still going forward with it, shame on him for providing a public forum for his opposition. Nye's side stands nothing to gain even with a "win", while his opponent stands to win even if he "loses" the debate.
We're talking about Bill Nye here. The guy just appeared on the TV show "King of the Nerds" as a special nerd judge. He is a entertainer, and this is an opportunity for him to self promote. I don't really think he is worrying about what this will do to the scientific community... and heck, if it wasn't posted here, I wouldn't have even known, so I suspect most people won't know or care except the usual mouth breathers...
Matthew 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others."God doesn't want formal prayer in school. Go pray in private and on your own time. No one will know and no one will care. The real question is why do you think you know better than God? Why would you push for school prayer when the Bible clearly states that otherwise? Do you know what happens when you defy the Lord? "Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." Genesis 38:7-10
