Religious people change their beliefs all the time. Hell, the Catholic Church even flip flops from time to time. And please give an example of 'morality born out of logic'.
There are! I know when I read "Blue Like Jazz" it blew me away. That whole book was an affirmation of how I believe a person of faith should try to behave. I firmly believe that this new age of information (i.e. the internet) has given many people so many different perspectives on life, faith, etc. That our new generation has almost no choice but to look at things rationally, and to weigh both sides of the argument, because they will be exposed to so many different viewpoints by the time they reach their mid 40s and start being hard-headed and set in their ways. Of course there are still the extremists, but I think we are making progress back into an age of higher enlightenment. I would like to think about a Country that moves away from the Religious Right and their lunacy and instead of despising one another, we bridge the gap of our own ignorance. It may never happen, and it seems impossible... but I like to think about it anyway.
Gotcha, I was just trying to give a little perspective. There are people I know who twist the Bible in ways you wouldn't imagine. Truly sad.
I'd say that Hinduism doesn't really promote itself as "the" religion, but you could also argue that it isn't a religion in the strict sense of the word.
There are many beautiful and wise things said in the Qu'ran, the Dao De Jing, the Torah and Upanishads.
Let me clarify Atheist - the Person - may have morals Atheists - The group - does not have a consistant and binding set of morals ergo . . .their morality is individualist . . what one atheist may see as moral . . .another may not In religions the GROUP - is suppose to have a consistant set of morals In Atheism . . .that simply is not the case Rocket River
I wonder how well a society would work on a completely non-religious individualist morality. Every man having his own ideals on every individual situation. It would be an interesting social experiment. Take 100 people from birth. Isolate them. Let them define their own ideals of right and wrong without outside influence. I wonder what would become of it. Also, you would be hard pressed to grow up in American without soaking in a healthy dose of 'Christian Values' It is ingrained into every American through every medium basically from birth While you may not goto church . . . Most input from a young age is tilted to a christian beleif system Which is why generally speaking .. . most American Atheist would have a moral system that is closely aligned with 'Christian' values Rocket River
Absolutist may have been too strong a term. As a whole, religious people are generally encouraged not to question the morals taken as "gospel" from whatever particular text is claimed as sacred. IMO that's a big difference. The point is that morality can certainly be described and adhered to independent of some book's instruction. More importantly, these morals are still virtuous and acknowledged regularly without the aforementioned collectivism of religion.
The Malleability becomes an issue If your morality changes with every situation . . is it truly a moral? i.e. Thou shall not steal except when you hungry Except when you need it Except when the other person won't miss it Except when you won't get caught Except when no one is looking Except when it won't be missed Except when it isn't important Except when you feel like it If this list of exceptions goes on long enough . . .can you say Stealing is wrong? Really? Rocket River
BTW - Is there a more Arrogant *ss than Bill Maher I like his show . . . and I am decent with him but he has a terminal case of SMUG Rocket River
Idealistically, perhaps. But again, show me where Christianity's set of morals is written down? Certainly you can't point to the Bible, because as we all know, you have to be selective about taking the set of morals as written in there. What's more, if "group-think" is so important to you, as it seems to be, are you comfortable with the concept of rule by law (as opposed to religion)? Because, as an American, whether Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Atheist, Agnostic, etc., there actually IS a consistent set of morals written out (well, certainly more consistent than those in practice by religious followers). I'm just not exactly sure how the "morality" part of Atheism is a big hang up to anyone, whether as a group or individual. I can see someone saying, "Atheists, no...I don't agree with them, they don't believe in God", and it would at least make sense, but to have a problem with the lack of morality because of no "group" makes no sense. Modern societies, and their associated group and individual morals, aren't governed by religion - influenced by them, sure, but if religion was completely banished, I'm pretty sure we'd still have law.
One thing I will say on this I think that alot of the morals of the bible were needed esp at the time there were written and most are still good today Humanity was young and a bit wild You don't explain electricity to a 1 yr old you simply tell him to not stick the paper clip into the light socket no need for him to question it later .. . it will be explained to him to an extent we are nearing the 'Later' Rocket River
It can be. But that's humanity. Thou shalt not murder seems weirdly out of place given the old testament's penchant for slaughter in the name of god. Thus my comment to LScola regarding justification. It's a frightening thing.
Morality is set in place by fear. Fear of consequences, rather it be divinity or the local law enforcement. Fear is the determining factor.
I guess it depends on the religion. Certainly somethings in a religion are universal, but I don't think religion is any good at all when it just becomes a set of rules. I don't think that's the intention. Ideally religion should be a spiritual guidebook.
Really? The only reason you don't steal is because of fear of consequences? It has nothing to do with your own sense of justice, compassion, or fairness?
It always boils down to fear in some aspect or another. I don't steal because I'm afraid of getting caught! I don't steal because other people would look down on me and I'm afraid to be perceived as a criminal. I don't steal because I'd feel empathy toward the person I wronged and I'm afraid of having that on my conscience. Fear keeps us held in check.
