Bill Maher and Sam Harris arguing with Ben Affleck about Islam

General Maher Argument. . I'm right! The others are Crazy!

Rocket River

 

I think it's very simply that he's German. There's some strong guilt association that he has with that. It's laughable when he starts calling people anti-Semitic when criticism is strictly of Israel and not Jews in general. He has to conflate the two to make his reactionary nonsense work for him. The anti-Muslim stuff is the cherry on top. Rather than going after the Saudis and Iranians who are the cause of most ME conflict he attacksMuslims generally. It's preposterous the double standard he keeps.

 

Hey I am a liberal,too and not particularly religious or conservative on social issues.

Let's say it, too. We don't like what appears to be the position of some followers of Islam on lots of issues such as gays, feminism, cliterodecotmies, joking about Allah or cartoons or some of the side issues.

But we strongly object to these differences on these types of issues being used as they are by our country and others as some half assed justification to bomb and kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims who are resisting us primarily for political reasons. Similarly we are against those who attempt to use these illiberal notions of some of these Muslims as a justification for Israel's ethnic cleansing and killing of civilians.


I am not talking about Mahrer who is not pushing a military solution to supposedly make these types of Muslims be more liberal by killing, torturing and bombing them till they get more moderate.


There is nothing inherently better or worse about killing folks through be-headings vs a hundred times more through bombing, sanctions etc. In fact the sheer size of these crimes against humanity committed by our side dwarf those committed by even the most frenzied Jihadi. That is important and to the extent that some of these critics think Christians and Jews who justify these crimes based on their interpretation of Judaeo-Christian morality it is horrible, whether they are more liberal with respect to social issues or not.

 

"We are used to seeing that anger". Really? That's your response? This superiority complex is an issue in itself. All societies have issues, lets not claim a whole group of people are superior in some way than another. It's a scary road to go down.....

If you demonize a group they are going to react accordingly...again its a bigoted and scary road to go down....

 

I would argue that this is a post-Dubya characterization of liberals.

Before, Liberals were supporting the bombing of Kosovo in the name of liberal interventionism. The rise of the neo-con agenda gave birth to an alliance with Jewish interest groups with Christian fundamentalists who agree and fervently support a Jewish controlled state pre-Rapture (that falls in line with their literalist Scripture).

That alliance coupled with the amount of treasure lost by a Republican president sparked a reaction of where Liberals have evolved today.

Keep in mind that sanctions in the first Iraq war was considered the more non-violent alternative to keep dictators at bay. Without sanctions, military intervention comes into play. Without neither, one accepts the status quo of tyrants and dictators.

So my point here is that "a policy non-action by virtue of the actor being evil" equates to doing nothing. Doing nothing is pretty much a policy of non-interventionalism. Non-internventionalism equates to letting the status quo of allowing non-liberal ideals such as tyranny and despotism to exist.

So I can see ATW's stance, though my nuance isn't with the Islam itself but rather the Middle Eastern despots we prop up that peddle backwards ideals such as Wahabbism that never existed without government support pre-60s. My thoughts here is that post-WW2, the ME state was progressing towards modernization. When those nations faced the Middle Income Trap plus the Dutch Disease, that stagnation opened public acceptance of despotism. That coupled with the US's willingness for client states in oil rich or Israel friendly nations propped up the same despots that are peddling hate, who in turn are causing the backwards conditions that spark violent terrorist groups.

The fact that there are backwards cultures is because modernization halted and people were presented with an alternative ideal. A scapegoat into the rejection against the Western paradigm and back into cultural harkenings of previous Greatness of their Homeland.

 

WOW! This is very eye opening. I was a little ignorant on the topic so I refrained from posting on it. This is scary stuff and should be reposted frequently. Thank you for actually backing up your arguments with facts.

 

I enjoy Maher's liberal/progressive takes on most things. But when it comes to religion, Maher is dead to me.

 

Bill Maher is ANTI-religion in every sense of the word. Not just Islam, but Christianity as well. And he often takes it beyond the point of disagreement and becomes blatantly disrespectful. I DVR and watch every single one of his Real Time w/ Bill Maher episodes on HBO, though I haven't watched this past week's episode yet. I enjoy the show, but whole heartedly disagree with nearly all of his takes on religion. And often times I find his takes offensive.

For that reason I couldn't care less about what he thinks in that arena. Other than that, I like the guy.

 

Maher's take: You're doing liberal wrong

Conservative Religious Right's: You're doing Christianity wrong.

Others': If you claim to be moderate peaceful Muslim, you're doing Islam wrong.

 

Apostasy seems illogical. If this religion is so great and will save your life why the extra motivation? Wait, I think saying Islam is illogical is punishable by death right? Never mind Exiled. Just joshing.

 

Atw on his jihad against Islam as usual

 

none of the muslim posters here ever address blatant issues such as this, it is becoming rather comical.