Bill Bennett's final solution: aborting all black babies could reduce crime

Why do you insist on playing prosecutor, judge and jury all? The guy made a theoretical argument to prove a point which he himself said was abominable.

America is not my defense; it's just a reminder to you. You know nothing of my character so stop commenting on it please...

 

Do your words and Ideals not reflect your character?

Rocket River
looking for a definition of Character

 

It is a side issue, but I think the general background of the question was do you think that black people in the US commit crime at a higher rate than white people in the US. I guess you can squeeze out of it by bringing in Africa if you like.

Personally, I think it's entirely possible that poor white people commit crimes more frequently than poor black people - but I don't know.

However, my issue with this thread is that Bennett did not make a racist statement. He made a statement with a negative stereotype. THAT IS NOT RACISM. Not to me at least. Racism is hatred or dislike for a race of people, or even something as mild as bias against a race in a hiring decision.

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Bennett may have betrayed some racist tendencies by saying that statement, but he was commenting on the state of affairs in America.

He made a truthful statement that he was a dumbass to say in a public forum, given the current state of America. It was hurtful (partly because it was true). A more effective proposal would be, as others have mentioned, to abort all poor babies.

About the racism thing - you will never see racism disappear in America. However, I think it decreases with each generation. However, some people won't see this because they will look for it more fervently as it decreases.

You don't have to look that hard to find racism. Instead of screaming racism about stereotypes, get a bunch of guns and go wipe out the white supremacists in Idaho, Montana, and Oregon. You'll do a lot more for eliminating racism and I will applaud.

 

so ken lay and OJ cancel each other out. of course, they were different crimes...it's an idiotic arguement, i know, but i think you get my point.

 

FB cited african societies above, composed predominately of poor blacks, that are not crime ridden. so the idea that race, or blackness, if you must, or poverty by themselves, or even together, cause crime, is false. however, one must ask why in america race, poverty, and crime seem to be linked, not just in the public mind but in statistics as well.

 

why did you dowdify the quote? wheres the rest of it, the part where he said the idea was morally repugnant?

i could give a flying **** about bill bennet, i never listen to him, and by almost any measure he's irrelevant to the national debate. the only reason this is an issue is he's a republican that had the temerity to mention race (and abortion). speaking about race is not racist. was his analogy clumsy, inelegant? yes, was it racist? to suggest as much performs an injustice to the real thing.

 

Can we agree that both of them are Privileged?

Rocket River

 

Well, of course, words and ideals reflect your character-- as long as you have a significant enough sample and as long as you take the pains to understand what the words and ideals signify rather than jumping to a pre-ordained conclusion.

 

It is a negative stereo type when he applies to the WHOLE race. The majority of blacks do not get convicted for committing crimes. Yet Bennet was the one who pre-judged a whole race of babies that haven't even been born yet.

If he isn't looking at the individual and judging that individual on a case by case basis, he is applying a negative stereotype based on race.

 

He assigned black people a likelihood of committing crime based on their race. Unless you think committing crimes isn't a negative characteristic then he assigned a bunch of black unborn children that characteristic.

I'm sorry but the facts are that most black people aren't convicted criminals. So for him to talk about criminal activity and then suggest that aborting all black children is racist.

This is a strange argument in this thread because a lot of people defending Bennet keep pointing out that Bennet said the idea of aborting all black children was immoral. So that somehow we are supposed to hear that and say, "ok, Bill Bennet said it was a bad idea, so what he said isn't racist."

Please read this once and for all so we can get off of that topic.

BILL BENNET DID NOT SUGGEST THAT ABORTING ALL BLACK BABIES WAS A GOOD WAY TO FIGHT CRIME

I don't believe anyone is saying that is what Bennet suggested, nor do I believe that is the reason anyone is attributing that as being why Bennet's comment was racist.

But what he said was still racist. Because of all the contributions and things that blacks have done for our society(the telephone, open heart surgery, pioneering blood transfusions, numerous inventions of Thomas Edison's etc.) Bennet associated future, innocent, unborn children with crime. When crime was brought up, Bill Bennet brought up unborn black children. It doesn't matter if Bennet suggested aborting them or not aborting them. Bill Bennet associates the black race with committing crime. That in itself is racist and a negative stereotype.

 

What positive attribute was he trying to convey by voicing the suggestion of blacks and abortion?

Once you tell me how his comment had any positive contribution to society then perhaps I can relax. IMO, it was pure dribble that was not only senseless but was also offensive. He crossed the line.

It's not your defense but its a reminder to me? Please explain to me how you differentiate the two.

I'm all for the 1st ammendment. He has a right to say what he said. But he is still a sleezeball for saying it.

 

No, it isn't. In America, blacks are statistically more likely to commit a crime than whites (the only measure we have is convictions, so that is what we will use). You know this, it has been posted before, but for some reason, you keep claiming that to admit this is somehow racist. Facts are not racist. He made a statement that is well supported by statistical evidence. It may not be what people want to hear, but it is not racism, it is having a basic understanding of criminal statistics.

You also have said several times that aborting all white babies would also lower the crime rate, but that is not true. Whites commit crimes at a lower rate than non-whites, so aborting all white babies would actually increase crimes rates, if current trends held. Not racism, not white supremecy, fact.

 

Until I see that stat normalized by factors such as economic condition, family condition (from single parents or not, time spent at home), education level of the perpetrator and the generation before him etc, I'll hold the contention that if there's blacks cause more crime, then it's probably due to something more than just race and that aborting black baby is a racist statement when one considers the other factors we could focus on the otherhand.

 

The one positive that might come from this controversy, is to have the race element be removed from future debates, and then focus on the issue: "Does increased access to abortion lower the crime rate?"

Personally, I don't see how there could be any doubt that increased access to abortion would reduce the crime rate. It would also reduce the poverty rate, and the welfare rate. This is true whether black babies are being aborted, white babies, or green babies. It is elementary that children from poor, young mothers who cannot afford to raise them, and with no father around, have a much higher chance of ending up behind bars, and a much lower chance of making sizable contributions to the Social Security system.

We have way too many people in this world. World population rates are not projected to peak until the end of this century. If I were king, I would be to provide free, state-subsidized abortions to anyone who wants them. Free vasectomies all around. Also, free "morning after" pills at the free clinic. Free birth control for welfare moms would be a nice step. What the hell, while we are mass producing the pills, let's also donate tons of the stuff to the third world. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and there's no better bang for the buck than birth control. That's the truth that Bill Bennett doesn't want to tell, because he is anti-abortion.

 

Aborting all whites would lower the crime rate, because more resources for fewer people should mean less poverty which would mean less crime. In addition we know that drug use, and white collar crimes aren't done by blacks more than other race, so those crimes would go down as well.

But it doesn't matter whether blacks commit crime at a higher rate. The majority of blacks still aren't jailed for criminal activity so assigning that attribute to a whole race is racist. The fact that as soon as abortions and crime reduction were brought up, Bill Bennet and nobody else brought race into the game. The race he brought into the game were blacks. This is despite the fact that most blacks aren't guilty of creating crimes. Bill Bennet assigned a propensity to commit crimes on the entire race when he brought up the idea of aborting black pregancies. That is the end of the story.

It isn't having a basic understanding of criminal statistics, it is magnifying one in a large number of relevant statistics and using that as the basis for his assumption. We know that the reason that blacks commit more crimes in the U.S. isn't because they are black, so why single in on that? Why not instead say we know that if we eliminated poverty in the U.S. the crime rate would go down significantly. Looking at statistics, high crime areas and high poverty areas go hand in hand

 

Here's another guy who spoke the "truth" :

"You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives..."

- Jack Nicholson as Col. Jessep, "A Few Good Men".

 

Even if that were true, please explain to me the benefit of that statistic relative to aborting all black babies?

The crime rate isn't part of the problem in his argument. The crime rate was the motivator BEHIND his argument and that is fine. How you choose to use that information is the REAL problem!!!

 

"if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down."
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"The president believes the comments were not appropriate"
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Someone you listen to and support is called out for making an outrageous racist comment ~ so you decide that those who report his comment are in the same league as the Nazis.

That's quite a leap of logic.

 

bennett didnt criticize anyone but he owes an apology to those he offended by his implication that black people are more likely to be criminals. what he said was incredibly stupid.

again, all durban did was read an fbi memo detailing abuses/torture and guantanamo. he never called the troops nazis. he simply stated that what he was reading were things that seemed like things nazis, soviets, ect would do. our own fbi is detailing instances of torture by american troops, but durban got hammered for his unwise analogy and the actual content of the memo was never investigated. his nazi analogy upset alot of people (mostly on the right) and he was grown-up enough to apologize for it.

for the record, i dont know much about bennett and i dont think this comment automatically makes him a racist or anything. he said something stupid and if he was smart he would have apologized already and this wouldnt be such a big deal, but instead he's out there not only defending himself, but going on the attack against those who are critical of him (straight out of the neo-con playbook).

the guy is just a radio host. he's not in public office. however, i cant believe this many people are out defending him.

 

Black people in America ARE more likely to be criminals (for whatever underlying reason). How can he be held accountable for people being offended by a statement of fact? If I said NASCAR should put up billboards in majority white areas, it is because white people are the fan base of NASCAR. That is not racist, because it is a statement of fact, even though it is not pleasant to be associated with NASCAR.