Bill Bennett's final solution: aborting all black babies could reduce crime

After five years Bush has been in office you have no grounds whatsoever to say what Kanye said was "completely false." You say that like it's a fact. We don't know if Bush cares about black people or not, but there is nothing in his record to repudiate Kanye's statement and much to support it. It is clear, at least, that Bush has chosen to focus more on the interests of rich people than poor ones. And it is clear that the federal government responded more quickly and more urgently to a tsunami in another country than to a storm that mostly affected poor blacks in this one. I'm not saying Bush is a racist. I'm much more inclined to think he's a classist. But I know for sure he is more interested in protecting the rights of the rich than the poor. That's a natural fact. Here's another one. Blacks, who are a persecuted class, are among the greatest offenders in persecuting homosexuals, another persecuted class. RocketRiver: you cry bloody murder about being persecuted as a black but you fall right into line in persecuting gays and lesbians. Not to mention animals, which is a whole other story. Your moral authority would ring more true if it were across the board and not only in your own interest. I'm a white guy, but I absolutely deplore any discrimination against any living creature, white or not, male or not, straight or not, human or not. basso and Jorge and giddyup are comfortable with bigotry against non-whites. They wouldn't put it that way, but they'd defend the rights of bigots to express their bigotry til the bloody end. Others here are comfortable with bigotry against gays. Others, including you River, are comfortable with planned and constant torture and violence against animals because you are so offended that their suffering would be compared to that of your ancestors. Make sure that high horse is sound before you jump up on it. Wanna be righteous? REALLY be for civil rights. That means letting go of homophobia. And really be for an end to unnecessary suffering. That means opposing bogus wars and living a cruelty free lifestyle to whatever degree possible, not to whatever degree is convenient.

 

When a majority black population is victimized by a slow federal response to a national disaster, the claim is that it's a class issue and not a race issue. When the subject turns to crime however, it's no longer a class issue but a race issue. It's a little too convenient substitution of race and class.

 

I couldn't disagree more with this part of the post. First, it isnt appropriate to accuse someone of racism based on the fact that "there is nothing on the record to repudiate" it. You are essentially saying we have to prove a negative. If you are going to accuse someone of racism, have some actual racism to accuse that person of.

Besides I believe his education reforms are starting to improve what the poor black community needs most. That he has put so much political capital into something, the NCLBA, that has been bashed so much shows to me that he is interested in helping the poor.

If you REALLY want to be for civil rights, Batman, then look at the horrible job public schools and teachers unions have been doing with poor, minority students. And who is standing in the way of reform? The groups who claim to be most in support of civil rights. Unbelievably, these groups want to continue the status quo in our schools.

 

You and TJ have both said this, but it isn't true. Blacks in the U.S. are convicted of committing crimes at a highter rate. Most places(not all) in Africa have a lower crime rate and a much larger black population.

So the crime problem doesn't have to do with race, but race in the U.S.

So for Bennet to mention aborting aborting blacks and cutting down crime is racist. As was pointed out aborting all whites would also reduce the crime rate. Reducing all of any race would reduce the number of people who could possibly commit a crime.

Like I said, anyone who thinks Bennet was advocating any or all black pregnancies is accusing Bennet of something he didn't advocate. But for Bennet's mind to automatically associate blacks and crime is racist.

 

I don't think Batman accused Bush of being racist, he just said that nobody can prove that West's comments were absolutely false.

As for education and poor black communities I can only speak about schools in NY and LA. The teachers unions in NY have little power in comparison, and teachers aren't even paid a living wage there. In LA, the teachers are doing a great job in instuting programs to serve those communities. But in almost all the circumstance I don't think that teacher's unions are the biggest object that poor black students have in acheiving success. Nor is Bush's no child left behind the biggest reform that is responsible for what progress is being made.

Instead there are numerous law suits, which have forced various requirements on teachers, administrators, education funding, classroom conditions, environments etc. that have produced far more drastic improvements.

Oddly enough, though, some of the same lawsuits that were intended to help have hurt, but that is only the case in some instances.

::Edit:: For the record I don't know whether what Kayne said was the truth or not. My hunch is that it wasn't 100% true. But to say it is 100% false can't be known or proven. All batman said was that there isn't anything in Bush's record that shows that it is false while there is plenty to support it.

 

I would like to see the link for those sources, aswell as see if those statistics are normalized by other contributing factors such economic condition, single parent vs two parents, education level of the parent, education level of the perpetrator, urban vs rural and etc.

 

Well, can anyone prove that Howard Dean ISN'T a socialist? My hunch is that it isn't 100% true that Howard Dean is a socialist. But to say it is 100% false can't be known or proven.

What kind of lawsuits are you talking about? It i s a fact that teacher's unions have mismanaged education and that they are always the FIRST to block any meaningful reform. Education funding has continued to go up, but results haven't, at least not until recently after pressure from real reform (vouchers, NLCB, outraged parents, etc.)

 

Isn't that what Batman was arguing? So you agree with him.

 

Mr. Clutch:

I was responding to the idea that Kanye West's statement that Bush didn't care about black people was "completely false." That was just a stupid thing to say. It'd be one thing to say he has no business saying that or that you think Bush probably does care, but to say it's "completely false" is stupider than what Kanye said. George Bush has had five years in office. He has gone out of his way to reduce taxes for the rich. He has done nothing for the poor. It may be (MAY be) true that his supply side policy will trickle down, but that hardly means Kanye West's statement was "completely false." How many times has Bush blown off invites from the NAACP? I'm guessing probably as much or (probably) more than any other president ever. How many major speeches has he given or major policy proposals has he made in reference to race relations? I'm guessing none. I never called him a racist. I said he was more likely a classist. I also didn't say he definitely didn't care about black people (as Kanye said). I only said it was stupid to say that was "completely false." It is similarly stupid to suggest that a career long moderate Democrat like Howard Dean is a socialist. This is a great example of why I don't post here like I used to. The half decent debaters on the conservative side have either disappeared (in the case of Cohen, mrpaige, Refman, etc) or turned half liberal like Max. ("One of us... one of us...") Instead of instantly, and categorically, refuting what Kanye West said, why not think about why he said it?

 

There was the Chandra Smith decree which came from a lawsuit from Chandra Smith vs. (I think LAUSD>) There is Brown vs. Board of Education. Serrano vs. the State of California Education, The NYCLU lawsuit in New York, and plenty of others that have done things like equalize spending, giving equal access to materials resources, ensure adequate building standards in public schools etc.

I don't know about all teacher's unions. I do know that the one in LA has done a great deal to ensure that teachers are trained better, setting standards that teachers must fulfill, helping to implement standards and academic rigor for students etc.

 

Of course I don't think Howard Dean is a socialist, I was just making a point.

If Bush was a classist, he would have never tried to give temporary legal status or worker visas to illegal Mexican immigrants, who are the poorest people in our nation.

Well, the reason I think Kanye said that has to do more with his own way of thinking rather than anything Bush has done. He is bascially just "playing the race card" as they say.

In any case, I don't take this forum to seriously. I stopped coming here too, for a while, just got tired of it. I don't really think the debate is any better or worse here than in most other forums though.

 

Well, I agree that cases such as Brown have helped poor blacks. But today the legal obstacles are placed in the way of maintaining the status quo of a monolthic, incredibly ineffective public school system. Any time a potential reform or idea is tried, legal challenges pop up to stop them and protect teacher's unions.

This to me is the number one civil rights issue. The fact that people graduating from high school do not have the basic educational skills to succeed in life is a disgrace.

 

What Bennett says is true. However, the context of his message could've been better, thus leading to the subsequent pig pile. Blacks do commit a proportionately higher number of violent crimes compared to the rest of the population. He's not making this up. People are outraged at the presentation and dismiss the message.

 

Although I agree that blacks are convicted at a higher rate, there's a correlation between committing crimes and conviction rate.

Statisticlly, blacks commit more crimes and are convicted more often. However, because blacks commit more crimes, many individuals are often either falsely accused or receive more harsh sentences than non-blacks which is unfair since each case should be judged individually.

Also, the reason blacks commit more crimes than non-blacks is more socio-economics than any other - it's not as though they are inherently born to this disposition.

No matter what people say, we are still only 40 years removed from a de-segregation society where separate was not equal. You cannot erase the inequality within such short period of time without some consequence.

Hopefully, as society continues to evolves, we'll have fewer and fewer crimes in general - by all races. Of course that is entirely dependent on more equal opportunities to higher education.

 

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooo
*BONK* try again

Blacks are just convicted more
White folx get off with Probation . .and slaps on the wrist at a higher rate

White person with one Gram of Coke
doesn't do time. . . ask your president
a Black person with a GRAIN of Mary Jane will to some time

That is THE SYSTEM that they set up
then . .
in the ultimate move of HUDSPAH . .they use those
statistics to justify Genocide

Amazing
Perhaps . .their is a lil Hitler in him

Rocket River

 

Actually, you could abort every baby and it would go down further.

Higher percentage of people.......but the comment is ridiculous.....as is mine above.

Less people would equal less crime, but you don't say it that way.

DD

 

Probation is considered a conviction.

The sentencing is certainly harsher for blacks. But that said, all the evidence - basically every study out there - shows that minority crime rates are substantially higher than white. As others have said, though, it's a class issue, and not a race-specific thing.

 

I do not know who that guy is. but that statement was ridiculous.
At times like these I'm kinda happy because these comments proof that not all idiots are in the dutch government.(altough i already knew that)

 

How high was that cliff you just fell off?

I think Bennet's comments represent an ugly truth. He could have said it another way (i.e. abort all male children) and it would have still been ugly just not so smarting. And it would still have been true.

If we could and did abort all left-handers, crime rates would go down. Same with future-bald males... and on and on.

You guys make it sound like he gave this speech (after four re-writes) at some Aryan Nation conference. He made an off the cuff remark on a live radio show...

 

You consider this honest discussion...

"But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down."
__________

Face it basso -another- major republican voice has gone down in flames by letting his true feelings bubble to the surface.

If a democrat made this same statement you wouldn't be defending the merit of the idea behind the words.