I think you have to compare Biggio to other HOF secondbaseman. That's the only approach that is fair. Comparing him to other HOF's doesn't do him justice.
No I'm saying that Ted Williams put up such overwhelming numbers that the fact that he didn't perform well in the one playoff series he played in during his entire career doesn't mean much. Biggio on the other hand has not put up numbers on par with Williams so his performance in the post season will be magnified. If like Alomar he had 2 World Series rings then Biggio would be a sure lock. As it stands though he's probably very borderline as far as his statistics are concerned and that is why postseason is so magnified in his case. Postseason is that little extra that people judge players on. You might not think it's fair but the postseason is what people remember most a lot of times.
Agree 100%. I merely took exception to the "main reason" argument made earlier. I think it's fair to say the Sandberg & Biggio are the 2 best NL 2nd basemen since Morgan. I'm not sure what the consensus is among the voters concerning Ryne, but, looking at their career numbers, if he's a HOF'er then Biggio is as well.
1. Bill James is my favorite baseball writer ever. And this news that he loves Biggio, my favorite player ever, just makes me like him even more. 2. Second basemen don't hit. It's almost an axiom. Biggio was one of the best hitters in baseball for a long time. 3. Last year, Biggio was a more valuable player than Ichiro Suzuki. What you say? Not possible. Oh, yes it is. Ichiro played RF. That's where you're supposed to have an OPS in the clouds. Ichiro doesn't walk. Ichiro doesn't hit for power. And he'd have to hit something like .450 to make up for those deficits. Biggio is a 2b who hits for power and takes walks. So anybody who tried to argue that Ichiro might even have a case for MVP last year... well, please don't mention Biggio as not being worthy. 4. A person's a Hall of Famer if he's one of the best players at his position, (2-3 best) during the majority of his career. Biggio was the best 2b in the NL for about a decade, adn took turns with Alomar being the bset 2b in all of MLB. I think he's an open and shut HoFer.
Craig Biggio not a HOF wtf? This guy has hit for power, obp and stole bases throughout his career and been solid defensively. Playoff problems should not block him from his rightful place in the hall. This guy was the best 2b in baseball for about 10 straight years, until his knee injury and the emergence of alomar/kent and even then he was right up in that class. I get so sick of playoff arguments, well Kidrock, Barry Bonds has a horrible playoff BA, would you not want him on your team or consider him a HOF. If you say no, you either a) haven't watched baseball in the last decade or b) have some warped way of evaluating players. Playoff stats are a small sample against the best pitchers in the world. That explains struggles pretty well. Yes, bidge struggles with the low and away slider but how many hitters don't really. The old adage holds true in baseball: Great pitching beats great hitting. Finn, I think James evaluates looking at how many runs a player produced or in a pitchers case prevented for his team and I can see biggio well up there in production.
Heehee... your put downs of Ichiro have been amusing. Last year you said he was an average player and he only won the Rookie of the Year and MVP. But... to your statements now. The only reason Ichiro is in RF is because of Mike Cameron so your statement relating to Ichiro's value as a RF is not a good argument. Seattle has a large park and they have a gold glove centerfielder in Cameron and now a gold glove rightfielder in Ichiro. It kinda worked out pretty good by most people's accounts. Bret Boone at second put up huge slugging numbers this year which enables the move to work pretty well offensively, not to mention the AL is a DH league which allows a slugger to pack the lineup even further diminishing the impact of Ichiro's slugging % which incidentally was .002 higher than Biggio's. The Mariners could just as easily put Cameron, who's more of a hr hitter, in right and put Ichiro in center where his slugging numbers would be just fine. And even though Ichiro is a RF, he's also a lead off man just like Biggio. It's not quite so apples and oranges as you're attempting to show considering their values based on their position. In addition, your stuff about all of Biggio's walks gave him all of a .001 OBP advantage over Ichiro. Then consider that Biggio plays at Enron, very very hitter friendly park, and Ichiro plays at Safeco which is completely the opposite. And when we get to defense there is simply no comparison whatsoever. Biggio has no range and no arm while Ichiro is a gold glover. Baserunning? Ichiro had 56 steals to Biggio's 7. Team records aren't even close. Playoffs? Ichiro hit .441 and Biggio hit .167.
I agree. If a player has been in the top 2 or 3 at his position over the course of his career, then you would have to put him in the HOF. It only makes sense. HOF's should have a mystique about them. some people say that Biggio does not. But he does. He's never cleaned that damn helmet and that is just cool.
Ichiro is an average player, the AL MVP has been a joke for the past decade or so. Good Defense in rightfield - malarkey. That's like good defense from a pitcher - its nice, but it doesn't matter that much. He didn't deserve the Gold Glove. He's a slap hitting rightfielder, he's a lesser Tony Gwynn, in every aspect. Whoop-te-do. 2B > RF. Go Biggio, Go.
Agreed...and I don't know if anyone ever said it here, but Bill James rates Biggio as the 2nd best player in the 90's, behind only Barry Bonds. Biggio's career has been amazing...
That makes 0 sense. Let me explain it to you... it doesn't matter if Ichiro is capable of playing CF. What matters is whether or not he does. The difference between a great defensive RF and a poor defensive RF is nominal to the point where a relatively small difference in offensive production more than covers the difference. So, lte me repeat: Ichiro was a below average hitter for a RF CFs still hit better than 2bs. You can't compare hitters "straight up." You compare them by position. If you have a SS with an .800 OPS... congratulations, you've go tan excellent player. If you've got a 1b with an .800 OPS... time to find a new 1b. Childs play. Safeco is a bad *power hitting park*. It isn't necessarily bad for hitters. Huge difference. Since Ichiro is a single hitters type of guy to begin with... not a big deal. And Enron isn't actually that bad of a hitter's park. Certainly not worthy of two "verys." It appeared terrible in its first year, largely because the astros staff was so damned terrible and nobody was familiar with it. Last year, it was quite manageable. Defense? Having a great defensive RF is like having a terrific imaginary friend. Biggio was quite respectable at 2b last year, defensively. I can't believe you dared mention team records. One player = 1/25th of a team. You have to deconstruct a team by production. Last year, Craig Biggio was in the top 1/3 of all 2bs. Ichiro was near the bottom of all RFs. This isn't really debatable among people who look beyond batting average. Ichiro is a slightly above average player. He's below average, until you factor in defense and baserunning. If he ever learns that "walking" is acceptable, then I might change my mind. Until that date, he will remain a product of the Cult of Batting Average.
Yes, Ichiro is an average player, right field gold glovers don't matter, and go Biggio go. Who could argue with any of that brilliant stuff....
I would continue discussing this with you Haven but I concluded a long time ago that your baseball analysis isn't worth too much of my time. You stick to regurgitating Rob Neyer the science guy editorials and I'll stick to how stupid you sounded last year for calling Ichiro average with an average arm when he went on to win the ROY, MVP, a gold glove, a batting title, and oh by the way led his team to 115 wins.
I'm glad you agree. He is an average player, the AL MVP is a total joke, and has been for some time. And haven is right the vast majority of the time when he talks about baseball.
Of course he's right the majority of the time. Haven even by his own admission is a superior human being compared to people on here. How fortunate it must be to be 20 years old and already know everything. AL MVP is a joke, go Biggio go. Brilliant!
Well jason giambi should've won last years AL MVP, he had a superior year to ichiro sans steals. His OPS was 300 points higher, his team won over 100 games too. I understand you can't really compare a ichiro to a giambi in skills but Jason had the better year, check the numbers.
oh, haven doesn't know everything . . . . but he does know more than most concerning baseball. Not more than me(), but more than most.
Well finn, I don't know how to really put this but wins sadly are a factor of MVP. Arod had the numbers to match Giambi but not the wins. My point was Ichiro shouldn't have won and in my opinion flip a coin between ARod and giambi.
