Gave it away because they're rich enough to do so. In regards to the original post, I don't know... but for the sake of this thread, I'll bite. Weezer. How they went from 'Pinkerton' to the 'Green Album' is beyond me.
Bozzio is a god. He only did one album with them though (plus the queen of the damned soundtrack with jonathan davis) and his price was too steep for Korn to take him into the band on tour.
After White Zombie turned into Rob Zombie, it went downhill fast as a sellout. Thanks, Bevis and Butthead. I don't get the Kings of Leon gripe. I think their newest album is way, way more polished than their previous offerings. Just a band coming into it's own.
That's exactly why people think they sold out. Before, they had the gritty, twangy southern rock feel which was what really made the band for some people. Now, their "produced" sound sounds somewhat generic. It's basically a matter of opinion. Most of the original fanbase doesn't like the new stuff. But it's garnered a lot of mainstream acclaim.
Basically if a band you like gets a lot of fans, you have to say they sold out so you can maintain your music cred and tell everyone else you liked them before they did. To do this, you have to pinpoint when they started getting lots of fans and then say that is when they sold out, thus making you a fan of only true non-sellout music.
To me, a band "selling out" is when they completely change their sound or style to bring in a bunch of new fans. It is especially bad when they release an album and every song on the album EXCEPT one is what they are used to doing and then that one song is completely different. Of course, that one song is the most radio friendly track on the album and takes off. The next thing you know that band is now doing their next album where almost all the songs sound like that one big radio hit. Examples of this include the Goo Goo Dolls and Sugar Ray. Both had albums where every song except one was the stuff they were used to playing and getting little airplay or recognition. Then they decide to do "Name" and "Fly" on an album almost as an afterthought and voila, commercial radio picks up on it. But unlike Radiohead, who had no intention of ever doing an album that was nothing more than 10 different versions of "Creep", these 2 groups started to pander to pop radio, leaving their old sound in the dust. I hate to say this but to a degree, Genesis did the same thing. They weren't really selling many albums, especially with Peter Gabriel, but they changed their sound and took off. However, I will argue that the genre they were doing in progressive rock was a dying breed. It was either change their sound or die off (like Emerson, Lake, and Palmer did). And to their credit, their later albums with Phil Collins in charge always had at least one, sometimes more, song that was very progressive in nature. And even their "hit songs" had a very complex structures to it (like "Turn It On Again"). There's a reason why you don't find many Genesis cover bands out there - it is hard to play their stuff with the weird time signatures and all. It was just that their later stuff was catchy but had a very sophisticated feel to it.
Dude, the green album is great..don't know why people lump that in with the ones that proceeded it. When Beverly Hills came out the selling out was complete.
Manny, everything with you always comes back to Phil. You know I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where, uh, Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility.................But Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and, uh, Against All Odds......
Beverly Hills (or as I like to call it...I Love Rock N Roll) might be their worst song to date. That was the first Weezer album I just flat out refused to buy. When I heard Pork and Beans for the first time, I thought "yes, they're back!!!" So I bought the album. It's not bad, but Weezer just hasn't been the same since Matt Sharp left. They've just lost their edge. I seriously think the Blue Album was the best album by ANY band to come out of the 90's. I still listen to it all the time. As far as selling out, you can't expect ANY band to stay together for 3 decades and not see a change in their musical style along the way. We used to play Abacab and Who Dunnit? in high school. Until our keyboard player got grounded and had to quit the band.
Actually.....yes. Upon further reflection, that is almost exactly why And Justice even gets credit as the last of their "good" albums, it has several songs that stand out to me (One, Harvester, Blackened), but that was nowhere near as many as the previous albums. I personally believe their anger at the establishment fueled their early albums and once they had their first taste of commercial success (heavy rotation on mTV with the One video and a grammy nomination) they lost the "edge" that made their early stuff so good. Some have said the changed cause they lost Cliff's songwriting influences....seems plausible..but who knows.
LOL...I have had a running conversation with my wife over "sellouts". She says Dr. Dre has sold out because of the Dr Pepper commercial (Where is he says "Trust me, Im a doctor..."). Eventually, all artist are trying to make money because Radio is the domain of the young. You have to build a fan base early that will follow as you age and survive by playing concerts. Perfect example: Prince Prince was so cutting edge in his early albums that there is no one who has fused various types of music like that (See albums: Prince, For You, Dirty Mind, and Controversy). 1999 made him a star, Purple Rain made him a SUPERSTAR. However, it was an evolution not a sellout. Instead staying with the same formula for the Album after Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day was a psychedelic album that wasn't as commercial as Purple Rain (Raspberry Beret is off that album). He continue change his music to probably the detriment of mass appeal. He produced Sign O' Times 3 years (2 albums) after Purple Rain and it is considered his best Album (Title Track, U got the look, Adore, etc..are from that album). Now, he as he aged...his music changed. He fought with his record company (want him to slow down music releases) about the type of music. Change his name, became a Jehovah's witness. Only one time did he really attempt to sell out a a failed mainstream record label comeback in 1999. Here kept touring because he is still the most dynamic musician/performer in concert to sold out crowds. Of course, His "mainstream" comeback started with that 2004 Grammy Performance with Beyonce'. The Musicology album and tour made him the most money of his career. His tour grossed 90 million dollars - including 2 sold out Toyota Center shows- (only Madonna grossed more because of higher ticket prices - 120 million) and Netted 55 million for Prince (which was #1 that year). The album was multi-platnum. Billboard had to chance their charting rules because of the buy a ticket-get a CD marketing strategy Prince did. Since then, he has had another album debut at #1 and #2. All with little radio airplay. Like the Rolling Stones and Springteen, Prince has reached the "Legend" status were people will go see them in concert.....just on name alone. Prince, for the most part, has made the music HE WANTED...without the pressures to "sell-out". As musicians get older and wiser, they look for ways to bypass record companies to make money. Internet direct sales or Distribution-Only deals (where the record company only has to pay for some marketing and maybe disc pressing) are common. Target (Prince did one this year) and Wal-mart deals make money for artist because there is alot of money upfront.
imadrummer will disagree, but i'd say the same about Sting. "Mercury Falling" is exhibit "a" to that argument.
Meh... It pissed me off when new fans though Stadium Arcadium was the GOAT album after it came out, I like to think of them as a gradual change of style IMO.
The Red Hot Chili Peppers get my vote. I could hardly believe it was the same band when blood, sugar, sex, magic came out. Suckin' Satan's pecker. Suck it! It's only you're dignity. Suck it! It's only your dignity! Suck it! . . . I am available for children's parties, by the way. Bill Hicks.
Since folks are sprinkling in some solo acts. You have to put Liz Phair up at the top of the list of sell outs.
They went from a funk/punk band to a ballad band in one album. Blood, sugar, sex, magik. Not very gradual in my opinion.
Great call. I'll never forget the first time I heard "Why Can't I" and when I found out it was Liz Phair - I about passed out. I thought to myself, "She has never been able to carry a tune" and then I forgot about the pro tools program. But yea she obliterated any of her old sound on that album. Which that reminds me - have you ever wondered why an artist would release an album that is self-titled when it is NOT their debut album? I have always heard they do this to signify a major change in their sound which is definitely the case with Phair.
I think most people here are confusing "selling out" with getting popular. BTW.....discussing music here is identical to discussing fast food burgers. I know I've contributed, but man is funny to sit on the sidelines and watch people discuss a purely subjective matter.
