Alvah Bessie, Herbert Biberman, Lester Cole, Edward Dmytryk, Ring Lardner Jr., John Howard Lawson, Albert Maltz, Samuel Ornitz, Robert Adrian Scott, and Dalton Trumbo probably felt the same way about the FBI and HUAC. Most blacks and civil rights advocates in Mississippi probably felt that way about the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission. Lots of people on the left probably felt that way about COINTELPRO.
this is what is funny to me because IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE . . THEN THEY WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM GETTING A WARRENT If that argument works AGAINST the people why does it not work Against the government If you going to tell me RR . .if you don't have anything to hide. . you should not worry about it WELL If they don't have anything to hide .. . they should not worry about getting a warrent AM I RIGHT??? Rocket River
How do you know that anyone you call could be a terrorists? How do you know the NSA isn't tracking you? The point isn't whether you think the NSA isn't going to bother tracking you since you know that you're innocent and unimportant its the principle that they could track you and you would never know and they would never have to tell anyone they did. They have can track you with impugnity.
I'm very against this program but I am still trying to figure out if this program is technically illegal. The thing I'm wondering about is does data mining phone records without listening into the content of the calls illegal since that isn't the same thing as a wiretap without warrant?
Its a sad day when protecting individual liberties is no longer considered conservative. It wasn't that long ago that conservatism meant keeping government out of our lives.
If you think they are only mining phone records without listening to some of the calls, I've got a bridge to sell you. Remember, they were only listening to international calls, then whoops, it was calls with only one end in the US. Now this. What's the purpose of mining phone traffic if not to identify the ones you want to listen in on? These guys are so far over the edge, have done so many egregious things, that I'd bet all my OT this year that they are listening without warrants. I'd bet my oldest kid's college fund that it's not limited to the common definition of terrorist. And for those of you that think you don't talk to terrorists, I can trace my white trash family back to English kings and I can play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon with anybody. This whole thing scares the crap out of me.
I know they aren't because I'm not important and the only people I call are my parents (once a week-ish) and my roommates. Unless there's some huge family secret that they've kept from me for a long time I doubt the NSA has me on their radar screen. If they are tracking me, OK. They're just wasting their time and I don't mind them knowing that I don't call my mom as often as I should. As I've said I have a problem with this type of program in general and a bigger problem with it having no oversight. What I don't get is the fact that some of the people here are so self-important that they honestly think they matter to the NSA. I also understand that as this information is pretty much open records to anyone with enough money and a will to advertise, I don't care if the government knows who I call if it means there's a smaller chance of people dying. The same goes with my library books because I have nothing to hide. If you want to blackmail me on something that nobody cares about be my guest. I agree that there should be procedures for obtaining this information. However, you're all lying if you say you would all of a sudden be FOR the program with those procedures in place.
I wouldn't be lying, because I'm not for it. As rimrocker said above, this program scares the hell out of me. That intelligent Americans like yourself can't see the danger, and continue to make excuses for the Administration breaking the law, and violating the Constitution, and repeatedly lying to the American public about it scares the hell out of me as well. Keep D&D Civil.
Federal Source to ABC News: We Know Who You're Calling May 15, 2006 A senior federal law enforcement official tells us the government is tracking the phone numbers we call in an effort to root out confidential sources. "It's time for you to get some new cell phones, quick," the source told us in an in-person conversation. We do not know how the government determined who we are calling, or whether our phone records were provided to the government as part of the recently-disclosed NSA collection of domestic phone calls. Other sources have told us that phone calls and contacts by reporters for ABC News, along with the New York Times and the Washington Post, are being examined as part of a widespread CIA leak investigation. One former official was asked to sign a document stating he was not a confidential source for New York Times reporter James Risen. Our reports on the CIA's secret prisons in Romania and Poland were known to have upset CIA officials. People questioned by the FBI about leaks of intelligence information say the CIA was also disturbed by ABC News reports that revealed the use of CIA predator missiles inside Pakistan. Under Bush Administration guidelines, it is not considered illegal for the government to keep track of numbers dialed by phone customers. The official who warned ABC News said there was no indication our phones were being tapped so the content of the conversation could be recorded. A pattern of phone calls from a reporter, however, could provide valuable clues for leak investigators. Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report: http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/05/federal_source_.html
from josh -- The piece is written in a roundabout sort of way. But if I understand it, Brian Ross is reporting at ABC news that the US government is tracking the calling patterns of political reporters to further their leak investigations. If that's true, then I think we can set aside any pretense that administration policy on all manner of electronic surveillance isn't being brought to bear on political opponents, media critics, the press, everybody. -- Josh Marshall
The problem with the sentiment that the power will shift away from the Republicans is that there's nobody else to take that power from them. If the Democrats would moderate their stances on certain issues a bit, they'd be golden in November. As a usual Republican (who votes for other parties at times) I'm considering staying home in November. I live in Texas however and my one vote won't hurt the GOP that much but if a lot of people stay home it might be enough. I don't think the Democrats will gain an advantage due to a switch in ideology of the people but rather a lack of turnout from those the GOP needs to get them elected.
I think quite a few Republicans will stay home, so we agree on that, but I disagree that "the Democrats will (not) gain an advantage due to a switch in ideology of the people but rather a lack of turnout from those the GOP needs to get them elected." I think a lot of Americans, and no small number of folks who have considered themselves Republicans since the 1980's (because of Reagan), are undergoing a change in their political philosophy, towards more traditionally moderate postions, with some (gasp!) liberal ideas getting more traction as well. Just as millions of moderate and conservative Democrats, Democrats who were conservative on some issues, but liberal on many social issues, switched to the GOP in the '80's, we're going to see a lot of the same type of voters, in my opinion, switching back. Hey, you're welcome... it's a bigger tent than you think! Keep D&D Civil.
You parsing bushbot. Is there anything the administration does that your blind right wing'ed-ness doesn't excuse?
Somebody tell me which party is not going to have me arrested for Christian evangelism so that I can vote next election. Never mind, I don't think being arrested has anything to do with whether a Christian is a witness for Christ. Never stopped the Apostles.
Wow. I offer a bet and 10 hours later I win without anybody taking me up on it. Damn you Federal Source and mc mark... I could have doubled my kid's college fund if this hadn't come out so fast.
I would bet any amount that Jr and KKKarl was using all this technology during the 2004 race to keep an eye on the dems.
