Big 12 Expansion rumors

This is a fan forum, I look at it like I'm at the bar with friends (and strangers), sitting around having a few, and giving each other $hit about our teams/schools. Both my brothers went to UT, and I have countless friends who went there as well. We go at it ALL the time in fun.

So if you want to take it personally that's fine, but I would suggest you LIGHTEN THE F&&% UP. That is all.

 

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They ended up with him because he was a very successful coach from the American Athletic Conference that wanted to break into national program. Does that remind you of anyone? Herman (I believe) has stipulations in his contract that require UH to commit funds to certain facility improvements or his buyout would go way down. I think he does believe he has a future there and a hope that they can get into a bigger conference. However, it would be hard to say no to an opening at UT, OU, A&M for next year unless he knew the stars will align at UH. He averages about 2-3 years at every place he goes. He worked at UT for a couple years as a grad assistant but I don't think that means he would have a natural pull that way.

I don't think they got lazy at all. They did not adapt to the changing landscape of college recruiting. Mack was never a "day before signing day" coach. He started seriously looking at guys in their junior camp and made his signings from the summer to January. The problem is that so much media attention with TV coverage as well as social media that more and more really talented athletes are making big spectacles out of where they are going to go a few days before and up to signing day. Charlie has said that he doesn't get super serious until those last couple months and weeks. He constantly tells his current recruits to keep looking around until the very end and then he closes.

Did losing that 09 championship game kill something inside of Mack? I don't know. Maybe. He was on record (and many agree) that UT would have beat Alabama if Mccoy didn't leave the game and "it wouldn't have been close." Can you argue with that when UT trailed Alabama by 3 points with 6 minutes left in the game after Colt went out in the 1st quarter? Is this an excuse? Not at all. I just can't imagine how that felt after spending years building up to that and likely have been an interception away against Tech in 08 from ending up in the national championship. Some of the criticism I have heard on this board of Mack is just plain stupid. People have the nerve to say that he owed VY everything despite all the success they had in the 4 years after VY left. I think the program and fans destroyed the program with their pitch fork mob mentality the instant Texas doesn't have 10 wins and Mack didn't handle well at all. It was just a snowball effect from there. I know I am going to get slammed for this but I'll just say that firing Greg Davis was a mistake. You're not the winningest regular team in the span of a decade with a bad offensive coordinator. You don't have a QB shatter the records of 100 years of UT football and set the record for wins with a bad offensive coordinator. However, he was the lamb to be sacrificed despite working with mMack for the previous 14 years. Sorry, I know everyone is going to hammer me on that one. They had a lot of great recruits after 09 who played well while they were at Texas. Jackson Jeffcoat, Malcom Brown the RB, Malcom Brown the DT, Jonathan Gray, David Ash and Jordan Hicks. Unfortunately, injuries derailed the careers of the last 3 players. They just could not get their **** together with those guys and I don't think there is an obvious explanation. Garret Gilbert was an amazing player and one of the most desired QBs out of HS but it just didn't work. I think having to come in and win that championship game might have been a really shaky and confidence killer to start his career however who knows if that really makes a difference. The team then had a rotating batch of offensive coordinators. David Ash was a great QB and would have returned Texas to where they needed to be but those injuries killed that chance. Where was the talented backup behind him? That was a huge screw up by the coaching staff. Swoops seemed like he could have been the next VY to us before he played a snap because we didn't know any better but that was not the case. In the end, seeing Mack go broke my heart and that is something that so many of you can't understand. I was in school when we won both rose bowls. I remember people honking in the streets when we beat Ohio St and then walking around the drag celebrating with people the night we won the championship. I was watching it in Mustache Petes. Haters can hate but most of you guys don't know that feeling and that includes UT alums who were at the school in the years before and after. I was only 9 when the Rockets won the championship so I didn't really understand what it meant and I didn't have the same stakes. Mack, Greg, Vince and all of the amazing 2002 recruits gave me something very special so I'll always have a probable bias view of them to some degree.

UH also received support from the UT System Chancellor who oversees 14 institutions that educate 221,000 students and employ 20,000 faculty and more than 80,000 health care professionals, researchers and staff. I have never heard him say anything about athletic conferences before. It does not get any more official than that.

What a very specific and random metric. Part of the problem as been that Charlie has tried to play underclassman when he could and always complained about not being able to connect with the upper class-man because of their problems. However, no doubt there were other issues with the quality of the players or whatever. It's just complex but we can put most of the blame on the previous coaching staff. I don't really care to argue that point. It's just random IMO.

We've been here for the last 5 years. You probably hear the most **** from the fans of teams who are doing well. UH fans were insufferable in Sumlin's last year. Aggies were annoying as hell in the Johnny Football years. I don't know what could just be in the blood of UT fans that makes them different other than a level of superiority because they are the only team in Texas to win national championships since 1939. Three of those was when they were in the Southwest Conference. OH... I see what you mean. :grin:

 

Brando what are your expectations for UT this yr? What kind of record do you think they wind up with?

 

Not sure how well the Tigers are going to do this year with the new coach. They needed to get rid of Pastner though.

 

Like I said in the UT thread, this is not the year for really worrying about W and L's. This is the year to see improvement. Strong is on a hot seat, but it has more to do with how they play vs if they actually win or not. His first season was about getting rid of dead weight. His second season was about bringing in some cowbells (malik, connor williams, vahe, warren, burt). This season is about getting experience and depth.

Its simple really: Dont get blown out. Dont lose to Iowa freaking state or Kansas. Be competitive, at the very least, against ND and OU. There is a true freshman qb. A LB core, secondary, Oline, and dline littered with freshmen and sophmores. Next season is when its time to contend. This year is about improvement. Id hope for 7-8 wins. IF all that fails, hire Herman, who is an absolute possibility whether you like to admit it to yourself or not. As nice of a sentiment it is for a guy to want to stay at UH, its really hard when one of the blue bloods comes a knockin. He honestly would have left last year had USC offered him.

 

This is the second time you have made a similar statement in the last few days, although at least this time you didn't say it was a foregone conclusion Herman would leave for UT (by the way this arrogance is why UT has been a relative disapointment and is being out maneuvered by schools not even in the state).
The idea that Herman "would have left for USC" is interesting, especially considering I highly doubt you have ever met or spoken to Herman. I suspect you would find his comments about UT and Ohio St. alumni and boosters rather interesting.

Herman certainly could choose to leave UH; but the idea that UT would have the entire say in the decision is hilarious. There are other programs just as big and possibly a better fit that may need a coach as well. Also the idea that UT gets any coach they want isn't historically accurate.

Charlie Strong needs to worry about winning football games and not cheating on his wife. Tom Herman needs to worry about his team and not having absolute total control.... UH fans need to worry about winning football games and UT fans the same.

 

Right on.

WE STILL SIT ON THE MOST FERTILE RECRUITING SOIL IN THE WORLD...the definition of a sprawling/diverse metropolis ....under the radar city of power for a long time, but not anymore.

When the SWC ended, UT made sure we were left out ....
Our president/athletic department were at different ends of the spectrum. No common ground.
As compared to now.
Polar opposite.

The growth/development of our city/ UH, having everyone on the same page, and time are making the inevitable happen. We've waited a long time..and it feels good.

And reading through this thread.....Well, let's just say it reminds me what I've known my whole life about UT fans. They GENERALLY have a "false arrogance" which is born of insecurity/sense of entitlement. Overblown a$$es.. Those guys have had top recruiting classes for decades...and how many national titles to show for it?
One?

Well, guess what... Free reign at the Houston/surrounding area trough is over, pigs.

You corporate boys....all for the BORG.

UH doesn't NEED UT or the BIG 12. Things have changed. WE have the leverage to control for the most part where we eventually end up.

 

The boosters may be the exact reason Herman chooses to stay with Houston ASSUMING the pay is relatively equal - UH may need to find a way to raise him from $3 MM to $4 - 4.5 MM. Why worry about the high power boosters? Herman could have more control in Houston & would have the opportunity to make history and build something special here.

Once again, it'll all depend on pay, but I think Houston is motivated, especially if they want to make the move to the Big XII.

 

You have NO CLUE what Herman will do. Like others have stated, it's not that Herman wouldn't consider UT if they came a calling, but it's your freakin arrogance that if offered the job he's gone in a second as nobody turns down UT.
As I said previously, not that Strong isn't a good coach, but with a lot of UT alums/fans attitude "we can get whatever/whoever we want", then to wind up with Strong?

How many UT alums/fans were saying the same thing about Saban leaving 'Bama for UT? That it was a done deal!! Is Saban at UT?

Also "this is not the year for really worrying about W and L's"? At UT?
If they don't win 8 or more gms this yr I would be extremely surprised if Strong was given another yr.

 

UT fan arrogance is just something you'll have to learn to deal with, it'll never change even when they are about to start yet another season with the goal of just managing to be bowl eligible. It is what it is.

 

It's highly dependent on Gilbert and Shane. If they click and run an above average and consistent offense then 9 wins. If they don't then 5. You don't beat OU unless you have the talent there. You just need consistency.

I don't believe he meant that UT chooses for him and this is the 2nd time that you guys have your history wrong. They do have a history in getting some of the more acomplished coaches from smaller conference schools or non-football schools. I mean, how do you rank like that and not acknowledge that the current coaches at UT and A&M came from the AAC conference? The point is that it is an amazing opportunity for coaches at that level.

Please link to articles documenting this. That is the only thing that matters. Cite your facts.

You can read this thread and others and know the closest thing you can say is that UT would have more of a superiority complex and UH has more of an inferiority complex. That's not an insult but I don't really think any of those labels are fair for fan bases that massive. You're just being a douche. Also, how in the world do you hold UT's success against them? 4 or 5 national championships and the only team to have a championship in Texas in the last 80 or so years. I'm not trying to brag. I'm just trying to show that the facts do not support your opinions.
Only 1 of those championships came in the big 12. The other schools had equal opportunity (based on conference) for everything before the big 12 was created.

This is just wrong. They would have been in a different conference if that was the place. Their boosters are on record for years saying they want in the big 12 and they are not. They probably want to be in the Pac 12 and other conferences but they are not. I'm not trying to insult the school. Again, your opinions are not based on facts. You do not control where you want to go unless you are turning down invitations which you are not.

You are a typical homer. Extremely rude and poorly formulated facts.

It also highly depends on if UH continues to invest in facilities and the program overall. That is in his contract and it affects his buyout. However, it seems like UH is delivering on that. It would be very hard for UH to compete with pay until they get into a major conference and they are getting the full payout but that is just a guess. Maybe they can find a way? I'm sure they would do whatever they can. Herman has a history of staying at a school for 2-3 years and then moving on to the next bigger opportunity however head coach to head coach is not the kind of upgrade as coordinator to bigger coordinator to head coach. The thing that would worry me if I was at UH is if there is an opening at UT or A&M THIS year unless UH is in the big 12 in a few months. You really never know though. I don't remember what people were saying about Sumlin's reasons he might stay.

-I agree the Saban stuff was ridiculous however the comparisons are just not anywhere close to the same. I get you are saying that you think some fans assume UT gets whatever they want which I also don't think is true. However, giving a coach an opportunity from a non power conference in Louisville or a non-football school like North Carolina is a different thing.

 

"WE STILL SIT ON THE MOST FERTILE RECRUITING SOIL IN THE WORLD".
Damn straight Plowman. That's what UT knows. Some of you UT fans immediately freaked out replying to my previous post saying UT is afraid of UH. That's ARROGANCE speaking.

How about it just makes common sense to NOT open up that Pandora's box, and have to compete with that potentially one day. Why give a greater Houston top recruit the choice to stay home and play in front of family and friends, and to also be in your same conference? Yes there's also precedent of UT doing this previously (keeping UH out of the SWC for YRS), and look at UH's success once allowed in (won conference 3 of 4 yrs & 4 of 9).

UH also had a 7-8-1 record against big bad Texas from '76-'91 (first 15 yrs in the SWC). This was back in the day when UH didn't have the facilities. They had one thing, a damn good coach (Yeoman). Now they have the facilities, and they have a really good coach again in Herman.

 

What a convenient time span. If you are going to talk about their success recruiting in those years then maybe you should mention how they were cheating and hit with 250 charges of violations in recruiting during that time and place on 3 years of probations.

Have any of you considered that one reason the big 8 might not have wanted UH is because Houston had 3 years of NCAA sanctions in the early 90s and had a combined 4-28 record in the last 3 years of the Southwest Conference? Meanwhile Texas Tech finished 2nd,1st and 3rd in those years. Yea, A&M was also on probation in the end of the SW but it's A&M. They were a bigger program and still doing well.

Also, please point me to any articles explaining how UT kept UH from the SW conference or Big 12. You don't need to argue about it. Just copy paste. I am not saying that it didn't happen however I have never seen any evidence that it did either.


No one affiliated with UT is scared of UH. That's just a silly way to try to get what you want. "She's not interested because she just doesn't like a guy with self confidence." You can make that kind of argument with anything.

 

Spoiler

Damn, son, didn't UT teach you how to use paragraphs?

 

I'm so sick of hearing the same BS for decades. Walks like a duck....

LOL ...You've just illustrated perfectly what I was saying ....

Leave it to a UT Jacka$$ to describe himself and his brethren as having a SUPERIORITY complex when in actuality, this statement represents a classic manifestation of your INFERIORITY complex.

And, clueless at that...no recognition/awareness of the situation.

 

UT has been the most powerful voice in favor of UH the past few weeks and generally what UT says, goes. I'd probably be thanking UT for doing so at the moment, even if it is a political move for real estate or against other poachers.

 

Thank UT ?

With all due respect, when Hell freezes over.

For decades, they've worked it every way imaginable (the most powerful voice AGAINST us) ....to freeze UH out...and extract a ton of talent out of our area....

And, now..when UH has leverage ....and UT is saying "pretty pleeeeez" we're supposed to say "thank you , massa" ....

Riiiiiiigghht!

 

I don't think anybody who has ever attended UT, or been affiliated in any way with the best public university in the state, has the slightest "inferiority complex" when it comes to Cougar High.

 

Good stuff here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO48vn_dugE